5 ms·

Poland: Government agency fines private TV station for coverage of protests

64 points by tomazz 9y ago

Feniks 9y ago
Allowing Poland into the EU was a mistake. It takes decades for a country to build up its democratic political culture. Something like this wouldn't even be conceivable in Denmark or the Netherlands.
- lossolo 9y ago
  This has more publicity today because this TV station was taken over by US based company last year. Department of justice made a statement because US based company was fined. If this TV station would be owned by last owner today then things for sure would be different.. Do not judge Poland, if you want to judge someone then judge polish government. This government is a result of populism wave that also elected Trump in US, made Nazi party entering Bundestag in Germany, made UK leave EU etc. Before Law and Justice party took over, Poland was ruled by pro democratic, very pro EU and liberal-centric party. Poland (polish people) is the most pro EU country in whole Europe (source: eurostat) and was for last x years every year.
  - expertentipp 9y ago
    TVN is American-owned station producing American-style "news". The main reason probably why this incident is getting international attention. > result of populism wave that also elected Trump in US, made Nazi party entering Bundestag in Germany That escalated quickly.
    - lafar6502 9y ago
      So what exactly is wrong with 'american-style' news and why it deserves a government punishment? They were fined for reporting protests agains the ruling party, but you somehow try to imply it was because they did it in american style?
      - Feniks 9y ago
        "Independent media" is very new in Eastern Europe. You'd be amazed at the links politicians have with TV stations and newspapers.
        expertentipp 9y ago
        > You'd be amazed at the links politicians have with TV stations and newspapers. As if it wasn't the case in any other country as well... US in particular...
  - lightbyte 9y ago
    >Do not judge Poland, if you want to judge someone then judge polish government. This government is a result of populism wave The government is elected by the people, it's perfectly reasonable to judge those people for the result of their actions.
    - nkkollaw 9y ago
      Damn, you might be right but I'd rather die than have to be judged for Berlusconi :-/
- nkkollaw 9y ago
  Why comment when you have no idea what you're talking about?
  - Feniks 9y ago
    Wow great argument. I hope Poland has a better one at the next EU council meeting.
    - nkkollaw 9y ago
      Your post didn't deserve an argument, but ignoring for a second your ignorant comment about letting Poland in Europe, you're welcome to enlighten me as to how this: https://edri.org/new-danish-law-can-lead-substantial-internet-censorship/ https://edri.org/new-danish-law-can-lead-substantial-interne... is not 100 times worse than what's in the article.
- lafar6502 9y ago
  Allowing the country to EU kind of enabled populism to gain so much voters - thanks to all the EU money going through politician's hands they (socialists) grew in power, they're the masters of the economy in Poland now and half of business in PL depends directly or indirectly on money distributed by the state. Not mentioning 100% of public administration depends on it. So i assume this is a first step to a grand failure, full socialist style. And then we'll face angry mob - now they're angry because they want more socialism, but this is just because the stupid need to hit the wall with their own heads before they understand how messed up this is.
  - nkkollaw 9y ago
    So much imagination, and so many statements backed by absolutely nothing...
    - lafar6502 9y ago
      Ok visit Greece then
      - nkkollaw 9y ago
        Ehm, so who's talking about Greece again..?
  - gyaru 9y ago
    I don't even get what you get all this from, surely you know socialists actually don't like the EU in general? The EU giving money to "socialists" makes no sense.
- amiga-workbench 9y ago
  Oh please, Poland are the only EU country with a spine.
  - lafar6502 9y ago
    No spine, greed and fear instead
    - amiga-workbench 9y ago
      Perfectly rational fears. They're not pulling a Sweden and censoring politically incorrect truths.
      - gyaru 9y ago
        Yeah, because that sure happened! (no) You're free to link any examples.
        amiga-workbench 9y ago
        http://www.friatider.se/gigantisk-databas-ver-invandrares-brott-sajten-polisanm-ls http://www.friatider.se/gigantisk-databas-ver-invandrares-br... https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/extremhogersajt-och-nazister-anmalda-for-pul-brott https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/extremhogersajt-och-nazis... This was fairly recent, as I understand it, SVT is the more "reputable" news source and they don't seem to be refuting any of the data. Shortly after the migrant crisis began, Swedish police stopped recording information about the ethnicity of perps.
        gyaru 9y ago
        Huh, what's the issue with those articles at all? Sweden has laws how you have to handle personal information, a database like that would potentially breach that law. It's basically like a smaller version of GDPR from the EU. How is this governmental censoring? You'd breach the same law if you made a database with people that like Nintendo games. Jeez.
- megaman22 9y ago
  Stealing Poland from the Warsaw Pact into NATO was an unbelievable coup.
- ManlyBread 9y ago
  Weird, everything was fine when we had a pro-EU government, now we can't even sneeze without making it to the international headlines.
  - lafar6502 9y ago
    Sneeze, don’t fart aloud
himom 9y ago
Sounds like the 3rd/4th item in headlines on Democracy Now tomorrow. Censorship and facism are on the rise globally because history repeatedly shows the majority are ignorant fools and always fall for populist hate and false promises to ameliorate their discontent with scapegoats and quick-fixes.
- megaman22 9y ago
  Maybe people hate the bullshit that has been pedaled by their shit mass media and legislature
  - baq 9y ago
    But why they don't hate the bullshit that their alt media feeds them?
    - megaman22 9y ago
      Because it's a different brand of bullshit, that's closer to reality.
- rdtsc 9y ago
  > the majority are ignorant fools and always fall for populist hate and false promises But why is it on the rise. Did the majority get more foolish or is it just more of them so foolishness is amplified disproportionately?
acd 9y ago
I can recommend Timothy Snyder’s book “On tyrany”. It is easy too loose your democracy too populist once they start attacking democratic institutions like news and the courts. Please also read 14 characteristics of facism. Warning point controlling the media. https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html
- expertentipp 9y ago
  An article on fining a TV "news" station which is in one portfolio with Food Network and Travel Channel of some media giant, and suddenly... fascism!
dpc_pw 9y ago
As much as I dislike the ruling party, it's all politics and the major TVs in Poland are just foreign influence agents and they lie to their teeth about everything. For a weaker country like Poland to break out of foreign rule, they have to muster the power and get rid of foreign agents. Free speech has nothing to do with mass media which are just propaganda tools used by whoever is their real owner. Free speech in Poland is doing way better than almost anywhere else in the world. You can think, write and say what you want. There is no official or unofficial wrong-think commandos, or ideologies shoved down everyone's throat. You can actually have a public discussion there, without fear of retaliation, being ostracised, fired and unemployable forever, etc. In some parts of USA you can't even say "Merry Christmas" anymore without fear of being labelled a bigot, racist or whatever and having a talk with an HR. And comments about fascism etc in Poland are offensive and ignorant. Polish people like noone else in the world are wary of ideologies like communism and fascism. A lot of people here making such comments, wouldn't recognize fascism and totalitarianism if it hit them in the head. Otherwise, they would be discussing American universities, antifa, PC police etc all the time, not "raise of fascism in Europe". Poland, as lame as it is in some respects is an awesome place if you value freedom of speech and mind. Come and visit.

64 points by tomazz 9y ago

Allowing Poland into the EU was a mistake. It takes decades for a country to build up its democratic political culture. Something like this wouldn't even be conceivable in Denmark or the Netherlands.

lossolo 9y ago
This has more publicity today because this TV station was taken over by US based company last year. Department of justice made a statement because US based company was fined. If this TV station would be owned by last owner today then things for sure would be different.. Do not judge Poland, if you want to judge someone then judge polish government. This government is a result of populism wave that also elected Trump in US, made Nazi party entering Bundestag in Germany, made UK leave EU etc. Before Law and Justice party took over, Poland was ruled by pro democratic, very pro EU and liberal-centric party. Poland (polish people) is the most pro EU country in whole Europe (source: eurostat) and was for last x years every year.
- expertentipp 9y ago
  TVN is American-owned station producing American-style "news". The main reason probably why this incident is getting international attention. > result of populism wave that also elected Trump in US, made Nazi party entering Bundestag in Germany That escalated quickly.
  - lafar6502 9y ago
    So what exactly is wrong with 'american-style' news and why it deserves a government punishment? They were fined for reporting protests agains the ruling party, but you somehow try to imply it was because they did it in american style?
    - Feniks 9y ago
      "Independent media" is very new in Eastern Europe. You'd be amazed at the links politicians have with TV stations and newspapers.
      - expertentipp 9y ago
        > You'd be amazed at the links politicians have with TV stations and newspapers. As if it wasn't the case in any other country as well... US in particular...
- lightbyte 9y ago
  >Do not judge Poland, if you want to judge someone then judge polish government. This government is a result of populism wave The government is elected by the people, it's perfectly reasonable to judge those people for the result of their actions.
  - nkkollaw 9y ago
    Damn, you might be right but I'd rather die than have to be judged for Berlusconi :-/
nkkollaw 9y ago
Why comment when you have no idea what you're talking about?
- Feniks 9y ago
  Wow great argument. I hope Poland has a better one at the next EU council meeting.
  - nkkollaw 9y ago
    Your post didn't deserve an argument, but ignoring for a second your ignorant comment about letting Poland in Europe, you're welcome to enlighten me as to how this: https://edri.org/new-danish-law-can-lead-substantial-internet-censorship/ https://edri.org/new-danish-law-can-lead-substantial-interne... is not 100 times worse than what's in the article.
lafar6502 9y ago
Allowing the country to EU kind of enabled populism to gain so much voters - thanks to all the EU money going through politician's hands they (socialists) grew in power, they're the masters of the economy in Poland now and half of business in PL depends directly or indirectly on money distributed by the state. Not mentioning 100% of public administration depends on it. So i assume this is a first step to a grand failure, full socialist style. And then we'll face angry mob - now they're angry because they want more socialism, but this is just because the stupid need to hit the wall with their own heads before they understand how messed up this is.
- nkkollaw 9y ago
  So much imagination, and so many statements backed by absolutely nothing...
  - lafar6502 9y ago
    Ok visit Greece then
    - nkkollaw 9y ago
      Ehm, so who's talking about Greece again..?
- gyaru 9y ago
  I don't even get what you get all this from, surely you know socialists actually don't like the EU in general? The EU giving money to "socialists" makes no sense.
amiga-workbench 9y ago
Oh please, Poland are the only EU country with a spine.
- lafar6502 9y ago
  No spine, greed and fear instead
  - amiga-workbench 9y ago
    Perfectly rational fears. They're not pulling a Sweden and censoring politically incorrect truths.
    - gyaru 9y ago
      Yeah, because that sure happened! (no) You're free to link any examples.
      - amiga-workbench 9y ago
        http://www.friatider.se/gigantisk-databas-ver-invandrares-brott-sajten-polisanm-ls http://www.friatider.se/gigantisk-databas-ver-invandrares-br... https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/extremhogersajt-och-nazister-anmalda-for-pul-brott https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/extremhogersajt-och-nazis... This was fairly recent, as I understand it, SVT is the more "reputable" news source and they don't seem to be refuting any of the data. Shortly after the migrant crisis began, Swedish police stopped recording information about the ethnicity of perps.
        gyaru 9y ago
        Huh, what's the issue with those articles at all? Sweden has laws how you have to handle personal information, a database like that would potentially breach that law. It's basically like a smaller version of GDPR from the EU. How is this governmental censoring? You'd breach the same law if you made a database with people that like Nintendo games. Jeez.
megaman22 9y ago
Stealing Poland from the Warsaw Pact into NATO was an unbelievable coup.
ManlyBread 9y ago
Weird, everything was fine when we had a pro-EU government, now we can't even sneeze without making it to the international headlines.
- lafar6502 9y ago
  Sneeze, don’t fart aloud

himom 9y ago

Sounds like the 3rd/4th item in headlines on Democracy Now tomorrow. Censorship and facism are on the rise globally because history repeatedly shows the majority are ignorant fools and always fall for populist hate and false promises to ameliorate their discontent with scapegoats and quick-fixes.

megaman22 9y ago
Maybe people hate the bullshit that has been pedaled by their shit mass media and legislature
- baq 9y ago
  But why they don't hate the bullshit that their alt media feeds them?
  - megaman22 9y ago
    Because it's a different brand of bullshit, that's closer to reality.
rdtsc 9y ago
> the majority are ignorant fools and always fall for populist hate and false promises But why is it on the rise. Did the majority get more foolish or is it just more of them so foolishness is amplified disproportionately?

acd 9y ago

I can recommend Timothy Snyder’s book “On tyrany”. It is easy too loose your democracy too populist once they start attacking democratic institutions like news and the courts. Please also read 14 characteristics of facism. Warning point controlling the media. https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html

expertentipp 9y ago
An article on fining a TV "news" station which is in one portfolio with Food Network and Travel Channel of some media giant, and suddenly... fascism!

dpc_pw 9y ago

As much as I dislike the ruling party, it's all politics and the major TVs in Poland are just foreign influence agents and they lie to their teeth about everything. For a weaker country like Poland to break out of foreign rule, they have to muster the power and get rid of foreign agents. Free speech has nothing to do with mass media which are just propaganda tools used by whoever is their real owner. Free speech in Poland is doing way better than almost anywhere else in the world. You can think, write and say what you want. There is no official or unofficial wrong-think commandos, or ideologies shoved down everyone's throat. You can actually have a public discussion there, without fear of retaliation, being ostracised, fired and unemployable forever, etc. In some parts of USA you can't even say "Merry Christmas" anymore without fear of being labelled a bigot, racist or whatever and having a talk with an HR. And comments about fascism etc in Poland are offensive and ignorant. Polish people like noone else in the world are wary of ideologies like communism and fascism. A lot of people here making such comments, wouldn't recognize fascism and totalitarianism if it hit them in the head. Otherwise, they would be discussing American universities, antifa, PC police etc all the time, not "raise of fascism in Europe". Poland, as lame as it is in some respects is an awesome place if you value freedom of speech and mind. Come and visit.