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It seems like this sort of system would be particularly susceptible to the type of spoofing that they've been able to do with image recognition. Images need to

It seems like this sort of system would be particularly susceptible to the type of spoofing that they've been able to do with image recognition. Images need to at least look unrecognizable to the human eye, which makes it a challenge to mask them for computer recognition. But with hidden physical objects, it seems that simple physical modifications would lead to unrecognized objects.

lb1lf 9y ago
I agree it seems like they would be vulnerable to the same kind of obfuscation attacks as image recognition algorithms - however, I guess in this case they have the added benefit of determining that the object is a lump of metal (ceramics or 3d-printed exotics aside) - after all, very few objects with a comparable quantity of metal in them as a gun would routinely be carried into a casino.
- LyndsySimon 9y ago
  > very few objects with a comparable quantity of metal in them as a gun would routinely be carried into a casino. I'm not sure this is true at all. A backpack with a frame has more metal than my pocket pistol, as does my MacBook Pro. Is this system capable of discriminating between various types of metal? I know many hobby metal detectors these days can give you an idea of the conductivity of a buried target, although that can vary wildly based on depth and orientation, and is limited to about a foot or so in soil.
exhilaration 9y ago
Why spoof? Isn't aluminum foil sufficient to block microwaves? Or you can spend the big bucks on a faraday bag: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HETGX00 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HETGX00
- 24gttghh 9y ago
  They'll just pick you out for immediate inspection since your bag is a black box.
  - LyndsySimon 9y ago
    No one is watching the scanners with eyeballs, that's the point - they're using machine learning to pick these things out. It shouldn't take much to add to a pistol, for instance, to make it unrecognizable to this. In fact, I'd be very surprised if it works well with small handguns today like the Ruger LCP or the Kel-Tec P-3AT.
    - ImSkeptical 9y ago
      Train your system to flag a Faraday cage then. This system won't be perfect, but I'd is it better than nothing? (Maybe, if it's medically safe). Plus, I bet your typical psycho killer isn't going to jump through a lot of technical hoops.
      - calvano915 9y ago
        I bet your typical psycho killer isn't going to jump through a lot of technical hoops I beg to differ after examination of the details of the shooting here and the other places he scouted before it. Catching weapons in general is good for any property, but the purpose is particularly to prevent something large scale (the Westgate property in TFA is next door to the LV Convention Center, and at it's busiest will have many crowds coming and going at the beginning and end of each expo day). I don't know if this tech is the answer. I suspect paying qualified people to do this type of surveillance with video would be more reliable (I've read places like Israel have been doing it for decades), but casinos won't pay up.
prsy 9y ago
Modifications, or even just disassembling your weapon and distributing the parts among separate bags.

lb1lf 9y ago

I agree it seems like they would be vulnerable to the same kind of obfuscation attacks as image recognition algorithms - however, I guess in this case they have the added benefit of determining that the object is a lump of metal (ceramics or 3d-printed exotics aside) - after all, very few objects with a comparable quantity of metal in them as a gun would routinely be carried into a casino.

LyndsySimon 9y ago
> very few objects with a comparable quantity of metal in them as a gun would routinely be carried into a casino. I'm not sure this is true at all. A backpack with a frame has more metal than my pocket pistol, as does my MacBook Pro. Is this system capable of discriminating between various types of metal? I know many hobby metal detectors these days can give you an idea of the conductivity of a buried target, although that can vary wildly based on depth and orientation, and is limited to about a foot or so in soil.

exhilaration 9y ago

Why spoof? Isn't aluminum foil sufficient to block microwaves? Or you can spend the big bucks on a faraday bag: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HETGX00 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HETGX00

24gttghh 9y ago
They'll just pick you out for immediate inspection since your bag is a black box.
- LyndsySimon 9y ago
  No one is watching the scanners with eyeballs, that's the point - they're using machine learning to pick these things out. It shouldn't take much to add to a pistol, for instance, to make it unrecognizable to this. In fact, I'd be very surprised if it works well with small handguns today like the Ruger LCP or the Kel-Tec P-3AT.
  - ImSkeptical 9y ago
    Train your system to flag a Faraday cage then. This system won't be perfect, but I'd is it better than nothing? (Maybe, if it's medically safe). Plus, I bet your typical psycho killer isn't going to jump through a lot of technical hoops.
    - calvano915 9y ago
      I bet your typical psycho killer isn't going to jump through a lot of technical hoops I beg to differ after examination of the details of the shooting here and the other places he scouted before it. Catching weapons in general is good for any property, but the purpose is particularly to prevent something large scale (the Westgate property in TFA is next door to the LV Convention Center, and at it's busiest will have many crowds coming and going at the beginning and end of each expo day). I don't know if this tech is the answer. I suspect paying qualified people to do this type of surveillance with video would be more reliable (I've read places like Israel have been doing it for decades), but casinos won't pay up.

prsy 9y ago

Modifications, or even just disassembling your weapon and distributing the parts among separate bags.