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As Ben Thompson of Stratecherry said here: https://stratechery.com/2017/pro-neutrality-anti-title-ii/ https://stratechery.com/2017/pro-neutrality-anti-title-ii

As Ben Thompson of Stratecherry said here: https://stratechery.com/2017/pro-neutrality-anti-title-ii/ https://stratechery.com/2017/pro-neutrality-anti-title-ii/ There are the Euros and Portuguese you would expect, but in this case perhaps it was the language difference that introduced its own issues: Congressman Khanna seems to have missed the text at the top (under ‘+ Smart Net’) that clearly stated that the packages were for an additional 10GB/month of data; in addition to what, you may ask? Simply scroll down the page: So to recount: one Portugal story is made up, and the other declared that a 10GB family plan with an extra 10GB for a collection of apps of your choosing for €25/month ($30/month) is a future to be feared; given that AT&T charges $65 for a single “Unlimited” plan that downscales video, bans tethering, and slows speeds after 22GB, one wonders if most Americans share that fear.

lumitesi 9y ago
The Verge had a story about this topic on Nov 22. I think they show whit clarity what happened. https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/22/16691506/portugal-meo-internet-packages-net-neutrality-ajit-pai-plan https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/22/16691506/portugal-meo-in...
mosselman 9y ago
Your reasoning does not add up. On the one hand you are saying that American ISPs are worse than those in Portugal and on the other hand you are saying 'never fear' they are only charging extra on the high end connections. Shouldn't you be saying: "Look, in the US ISPs are already overcharging and throttling connections, even for high prices plans. In Portugal the prices are a lot more reasonable, but even those less evil ISPs are already chipping away at net neutrality, only imagine what will happen in the US" Do you work for the anti-net neutrality lobby? It seems as if you are trying to lull people into a false sense of security with regards to the threat against net neutrality.
- pdpi 9y ago
  > In Portugal the prices are a lot more reasonable According to [1], the average monthly net salary in Portugal is €846 ($993), or €1,158 ($1358) gross. For comparison, [2] lists median US individual gross income as $32,140 yearly ($2678/mo, not sure what the net works out to). Accounting for income disparity, the Portuguese prices are not as reasonable as you think. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United...
  - mosselman 9y ago
    I didn't say they were reasonable, thisisit seemed to say this.
jimktrains2 9y ago
> So to recount: one Portugal story is made up, and the other declared that a 10GB family plan with an extra 10GB for a collection of apps of your choosing Which is still terrible. If I create a slightly better social media, video, or image platform, it's possible people won't use it because it's not part of their 0-rate plan. That is a problem, and one of the main problems with the lack of net neutrality. Moreover, what happens as datacaps go down in relative or absolute terms and people are forced to use predominately "packaged" services instead of the ones they chose?
tinus_hn 9y ago
There is no reason whatsoever why sending 10GB of data to one IP would be more expensive than sending it to another. So if they are offering 10GB for free if you connect to one service they’d be able to offer it for free for connecting to anyone. If they refuse that means there is no competition. It also means they are meddling in content so they are no longer common carriers and are responsible for what happens on the line.
- strangecats 9y ago
  Not all IPs are equal. If facebook peers directly with your internet provider, your internet provider doesn't have to pay for that traffic. Netflix allows internet provider to peer with them for free at exchange points.[1] [1]: https://openconnect.netflix.com/en/ https://openconnect.netflix.com/en/
- Pilfer 9y ago
  >There is no reason whatsoever why sending 10GB of data to one IP would be more expensive than sending it to another. This statement is false. It most certainly is more expensive to send packets to places like Australia than to Europe (Australia has 20x higher transit pricing). You could claim the cost is pennies either way however that doesn't address the fact that some packets are more expensive than others. https://blog.cloudflare.com/bandwidth-costs-around-the-world/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/bandwidth-costs-around-the-world...
  - tinus_hn 9y ago
    The cost for transferring these 10 gigabytes to Australia is about $0.04, while a closer destination would be cheaper. So while technically you are right, realistically these costs don’t factor in the price.
- stephengillie 9y ago
  Were your edge router towards one IP was at capacity, but your edge router towards the other IP had excess capacity remaining, you could choose to either upgrade the router or drop packets. This is the situation at many ISPs and datacenters, and it's sad when management decides to drop packets.

lumitesi 9y ago

The Verge had a story about this topic on Nov 22. I think they show whit clarity what happened. https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/22/16691506/portugal-meo-internet-packages-net-neutrality-ajit-pai-plan https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/22/16691506/portugal-meo-in...

mosselman 9y ago

Your reasoning does not add up. On the one hand you are saying that American ISPs are worse than those in Portugal and on the other hand you are saying 'never fear' they are only charging extra on the high end connections. Shouldn't you be saying: "Look, in the US ISPs are already overcharging and throttling connections, even for high prices plans. In Portugal the prices are a lot more reasonable, but even those less evil ISPs are already chipping away at net neutrality, only imagine what will happen in the US" Do you work for the anti-net neutrality lobby? It seems as if you are trying to lull people into a false sense of security with regards to the threat against net neutrality.

pdpi 9y ago
> In Portugal the prices are a lot more reasonable According to [1], the average monthly net salary in Portugal is €846 ($993), or €1,158 ($1358) gross. For comparison, [2] lists median US individual gross income as $32,140 yearly ($2678/mo, not sure what the net works out to). Accounting for income disparity, the Portuguese prices are not as reasonable as you think. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United...
- mosselman 9y ago
  I didn't say they were reasonable, thisisit seemed to say this.

jimktrains2 9y ago

> So to recount: one Portugal story is made up, and the other declared that a 10GB family plan with an extra 10GB for a collection of apps of your choosing Which is still terrible. If I create a slightly better social media, video, or image platform, it's possible people won't use it because it's not part of their 0-rate plan. That is a problem, and one of the main problems with the lack of net neutrality. Moreover, what happens as datacaps go down in relative or absolute terms and people are forced to use predominately "packaged" services instead of the ones they chose?

tinus_hn 9y ago

There is no reason whatsoever why sending 10GB of data to one IP would be more expensive than sending it to another. So if they are offering 10GB for free if you connect to one service they’d be able to offer it for free for connecting to anyone. If they refuse that means there is no competition. It also means they are meddling in content so they are no longer common carriers and are responsible for what happens on the line.

strangecats 9y ago
Not all IPs are equal. If facebook peers directly with your internet provider, your internet provider doesn't have to pay for that traffic. Netflix allows internet provider to peer with them for free at exchange points.[1] [1]: https://openconnect.netflix.com/en/ https://openconnect.netflix.com/en/
Pilfer 9y ago
>There is no reason whatsoever why sending 10GB of data to one IP would be more expensive than sending it to another. This statement is false. It most certainly is more expensive to send packets to places like Australia than to Europe (Australia has 20x higher transit pricing). You could claim the cost is pennies either way however that doesn't address the fact that some packets are more expensive than others. https://blog.cloudflare.com/bandwidth-costs-around-the-world/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/bandwidth-costs-around-the-world...
- tinus_hn 9y ago
  The cost for transferring these 10 gigabytes to Australia is about $0.04, while a closer destination would be cheaper. So while technically you are right, realistically these costs don’t factor in the price.
stephengillie 9y ago
Were your edge router towards one IP was at capacity, but your edge router towards the other IP had excess capacity remaining, you could choose to either upgrade the router or drop packets. This is the situation at many ISPs and datacenters, and it's sad when management decides to drop packets.