5 ms·

Tangent, on "having a life". I met a woman from New York who was visiting SF. We both had been to Burning Man. She expressed her distaste at how much time San

by neilk 16y ago

Tangent, on "having a life". I met a woman from New York who was visiting SF. We both had been to Burning Man. She expressed her distaste at how much time San Franciscans spend on their art projects. According to her, New Yorkers "have a life". So, that bar conversation ended pretty quickly. But later on I got to thinking about it. There might be positive senses of "having a life", but I think she meant it in the more common way -- a horror of getting too enthusiastic about anything. Oh yeah, we could plant a rose garden in our backyard, but you know, we have lives. It makes me feel tired just contemplating it.

simonw 16y ago
I get really infuriated by the phrase "too much time on their hands", when used to dismiss acts of creativity (like building a model of the Eiffel tower out of match sticks). At least they weren't watching TV.
- smutticus 16y ago
  Amen to that. I also get terribly infuriated by this. It reminds me of being in high school when any display of creativity or intelligence was frowned upon.
  - olliesaunders 16y ago
    Posted for relevance: http://paulgraham.com/nerds.html http://paulgraham.com/nerds.html This is one of my favorites.
- Tichy 16y ago
  Some TV shows might be more worthwhile than building an Eiffel tower out of match sticks.
  - simonw 16y ago
    http://englishrussia.com/index.php/2007/01/04/eiffel-tower-made-of-matches/ http://englishrussia.com/index.php/2007/01/04/eiffel-tower-m...
    - mcobrien 16y ago
      I was with Tichy until I saw that link. Amazing work.
      - eru 16y ago
        Amazing, indeed. It's too bad the guy did the illumination with LEDs, instead of using matches for that, too. (Although that would have worked only once.)
  - eru 16y ago
    I still have to find one.
    - Tichy 16y ago
      Buffy & Angel
  - timwiseman 16y ago
    I am not sure if you are being sarcastic, but I will say I very much doubt it. There are many TV shows I enjoy watching, and a few that are either inspirational or infomrative. But never have I accomplished something by watching TV. Building something, even an Eiffel tower out of match sticks, is accomplishing something. How valuable or useful that something is is debatable, and there are probably better things to build then a match-stick tower, but it is still an accomplishment it adds to the world in a way that watching TV never will. I will admit to watching TV and enjoying it, but I consider it an indulgence. I always have something better to do, and I think that is true of nearly everyone.
    - delackner 16y ago
      Seriously? I watch almost no television, and most of it is utter mind-rot. But of course watching something can "accomplish something" -- it can broaden your experience of reality by showing you something that took place on the other side of the world, or ten years ago. The best television shows you moments of life that otherwise only the people who were actually present might have had a chance to see.
- CapitalistCartr 16y ago
  This is where the advantage to a place like Silicon Valley helps a startup; being surrounded by your fellow enthusiasts. It doesn't matter so much what they're enthusiastic about, so much as they are that type. Being surrounded by people who make less of your and yo work is demoralizing.
- Isamu 16y ago
  Compound their consternation by having fun with math. Just yesterday I got several expressions of horror from passers-by when I explained I was working out a problem for fun. Well, at least nobody beat me with a stick.
- mhartl 16y ago
  I got this reaction from a few people after the Tau Manifesto came out (http://tauday.com/ http://tauday.com/). The thing is, I don't have too much time on my hands; taking a week off to write and launch the Tau Manifesto was expensive. And yet, it's clearly the awesomest thing I've ever done, and I haven't regretted it for a nanosecond. P.S. I also, from time to time, enjoy watching TV. Don't judge. ;-)
robryan 16y ago
I've thought about this, then decided I probably couldn't live a fulfilling life conforming to the standard of this idea of having a life most people have.
michael_nielsen 16y ago
Cory Doctorow has a very thoughtful blog post that expands on this theme and really picks out what's wrong with accusations of "too much time on your hands": http://boingboing.net/2002/02/03/too-much-time-on-his.html http://boingboing.net/2002/02/03/too-much-time-on-his.html It's good enough that I periodically reread it, and recommend it to others. (Just submitted it as http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1591218 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1591218 )
- dkarl 16y ago
  I agree with the sentiment, but the source is suspect. Being an editor at Boing Boing gives him a vested interest in people building art projects that make you go "oooh, shiny!" for thirty seconds.
dkarl 16y ago
"Having a life" is how people explain why they don't do anything fun with their friends except eat and have drinks. "Want to ...?" "Well, yeah, that sounds great, but unlike you I have a frickin' life." For most of my friends these days, "a life" is a wife and kids, but for some of them, it's just a house, or pets, or even a job. Strangely, "a life" never stops them from having dinner with you or meeting for beers after work. It just stops them from doing anything that requires energy or planning. It's got to the point where I'm trying to figure out how to make new friends at an age where it doesn't happen by accident. But you find a guy whose Facebook page says "I love backpacking" and then you find out he hasn't done it once since he got married. I'm going out with women I'm not into just so I have somebody to do something with. I'd be too scared to get seriously involved with them, though, because then they would have a "life."
- neilk 16y ago
  > Strangely, "a life" never stops them from having dinner with you or meeting for beers after work. It just stops them from doing anything that requires energy or planning. Excellent insight. I was trying to articulate what having-a-life really means. So in this sense, having-a-life means that your duties are supposed to be active, but your entertainments are passive. If your entertainments are active, perhaps the implication is that you must be a loser in the other areas -- not accruing enough status, money, friends, etc., since you have energy left over. And that isn't completely untrue; sacrifices are necessary for any project. (Although, for me, it has always been the stuff that I did for no good reason which brought me the best jobs and the strongest relationships). But if someone has no dreams apart from passive entertainments... I don't know how they even get through the day.
  - vgr 16y ago
    I think that nails it. There is an urge to demonstrate your success in everything you do, and some activities just aren't good mediums for showcasing how awesome you are.
    - michaelrose 16y ago

by neilk 16y ago

simonw 16y ago

I get really infuriated by the phrase "too much time on their hands", when used to dismiss acts of creativity (like building a model of the Eiffel tower out of match sticks). At least they weren't watching TV.

smutticus 16y ago
Amen to that. I also get terribly infuriated by this. It reminds me of being in high school when any display of creativity or intelligence was frowned upon.
- olliesaunders 16y ago
  Posted for relevance: http://paulgraham.com/nerds.html http://paulgraham.com/nerds.html This is one of my favorites.
Tichy 16y ago
Some TV shows might be more worthwhile than building an Eiffel tower out of match sticks.
- simonw 16y ago
  http://englishrussia.com/index.php/2007/01/04/eiffel-tower-made-of-matches/ http://englishrussia.com/index.php/2007/01/04/eiffel-tower-m...
  - mcobrien 16y ago
    I was with Tichy until I saw that link. Amazing work.
    - eru 16y ago
      Amazing, indeed. It's too bad the guy did the illumination with LEDs, instead of using matches for that, too. (Although that would have worked only once.)
- eru 16y ago
  I still have to find one.
  - Tichy 16y ago
    Buffy & Angel
- timwiseman 16y ago
  I am not sure if you are being sarcastic, but I will say I very much doubt it. There are many TV shows I enjoy watching, and a few that are either inspirational or infomrative. But never have I accomplished something by watching TV. Building something, even an Eiffel tower out of match sticks, is accomplishing something. How valuable or useful that something is is debatable, and there are probably better things to build then a match-stick tower, but it is still an accomplishment it adds to the world in a way that watching TV never will. I will admit to watching TV and enjoying it, but I consider it an indulgence. I always have something better to do, and I think that is true of nearly everyone.
  - delackner 16y ago
    Seriously? I watch almost no television, and most of it is utter mind-rot. But of course watching something can "accomplish something" -- it can broaden your experience of reality by showing you something that took place on the other side of the world, or ten years ago. The best television shows you moments of life that otherwise only the people who were actually present might have had a chance to see.
CapitalistCartr 16y ago
This is where the advantage to a place like Silicon Valley helps a startup; being surrounded by your fellow enthusiasts. It doesn't matter so much what they're enthusiastic about, so much as they are that type. Being surrounded by people who make less of your and yo work is demoralizing.
Isamu 16y ago
Compound their consternation by having fun with math. Just yesterday I got several expressions of horror from passers-by when I explained I was working out a problem for fun. Well, at least nobody beat me with a stick.
mhartl 16y ago
I got this reaction from a few people after the Tau Manifesto came out (http://tauday.com/ http://tauday.com/). The thing is, I don't have too much time on my hands; taking a week off to write and launch the Tau Manifesto was expensive. And yet, it's clearly the awesomest thing I've ever done, and I haven't regretted it for a nanosecond. P.S. I also, from time to time, enjoy watching TV. Don't judge. ;-)

robryan 16y ago

I've thought about this, then decided I probably couldn't live a fulfilling life conforming to the standard of this idea of having a life most people have.

michael_nielsen 16y ago

Cory Doctorow has a very thoughtful blog post that expands on this theme and really picks out what's wrong with accusations of "too much time on your hands": http://boingboing.net/2002/02/03/too-much-time-on-his.html http://boingboing.net/2002/02/03/too-much-time-on-his.html It's good enough that I periodically reread it, and recommend it to others. (Just submitted it as http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1591218 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1591218 )

dkarl 16y ago
I agree with the sentiment, but the source is suspect. Being an editor at Boing Boing gives him a vested interest in people building art projects that make you go "oooh, shiny!" for thirty seconds.

dkarl 16y ago

"Having a life" is how people explain why they don't do anything fun with their friends except eat and have drinks. "Want to ...?" "Well, yeah, that sounds great, but unlike you I have a frickin' life." For most of my friends these days, "a life" is a wife and kids, but for some of them, it's just a house, or pets, or even a job. Strangely, "a life" never stops them from having dinner with you or meeting for beers after work. It just stops them from doing anything that requires energy or planning. It's got to the point where I'm trying to figure out how to make new friends at an age where it doesn't happen by accident. But you find a guy whose Facebook page says "I love backpacking" and then you find out he hasn't done it once since he got married. I'm going out with women I'm not into just so I have somebody to do something with. I'd be too scared to get seriously involved with them, though, because then they would have a "life."

neilk 16y ago
> Strangely, "a life" never stops them from having dinner with you or meeting for beers after work. It just stops them from doing anything that requires energy or planning. Excellent insight. I was trying to articulate what having-a-life really means. So in this sense, having-a-life means that your duties are supposed to be active, but your entertainments are passive. If your entertainments are active, perhaps the implication is that you must be a loser in the other areas -- not accruing enough status, money, friends, etc., since you have energy left over. And that isn't completely untrue; sacrifices are necessary for any project. (Although, for me, it has always been the stuff that I did for no good reason which brought me the best jobs and the strongest relationships). But if someone has no dreams apart from passive entertainments... I don't know how they even get through the day.
- vgr 16y ago
  I think that nails it. There is an urge to demonstrate your success in everything you do, and some activities just aren't good mediums for showcasing how awesome you are.
  - michaelrose 16y ago