4 ms·

If you think PuTTY is even half the environment bash+ssh is, you probably won't understand what the people buying Macbooks, or using Linux directly on Whatever{

If you think PuTTY is even half the environment bash+ssh is, you probably won't understand what the people buying Macbooks, or using Linux directly on Whatever{books,tops,pads}™ are getting from their choice. Not trying to be condescending, but it seems to need highlighting that just having SSH access isn't enough. Not to mention that these other environments have offered other benefits [especially] to developers looking for a programming environment that works for them. The VS.Net IDE-play-button approach to automating testing and deployment doesn't scale for everybody.

nailer 9y ago
Microsoft are writing a proper, tabbed multiprocess terminal for a future Windows 10 release.
- voltagex_ 9y ago
  Source? Is it in the Fast Ring yet?
  - nailer 9y ago
    Guy in charge of it, Mike Griese, Software Engineer at Microsoft, writing on Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14099051 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14099051
  - komodo 9y ago
    Console should benefit from the system wide 'Windows Sets' tabbing feature https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/11/tabs-come-to-every-window-in-windows-10-sets/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/11/tabs-come-to-every-w...
efdee 9y ago
Or maybe some people just need PuTTY for the SSH stuff, because they feel Powershell is superior to bash and related Unix shells.
- oliwarner 9y ago
  You missed a bit. > the people buying Macbooks, or using Linux directly [...] ... don't give two hoots about Powershell. Sorry, but I did limit what I was saying to describe people not using Windows.
  - efdee 9y ago
    Technically the "you" in your statement is not the same person/people as "the people buying Macbooks or using Linux directly". But I see what you mean. Hopefully you also see what I mean - that nobody in their right minds would think that PuTTY is trying to be bash+ssh. PuTTY is the ssh part of that combination, and there are plenty of options to cover for the bash part too. PS: From the fact that you refer to Visual Studio as "VS.Net", I take it that you haven't been in Microsoftland for a while. No serious developer uses these "play-buttons" to do their automated testing and/or deployment.
    - oliwarner 9y ago
      > I take it that you haven't been in Microsoftland for a while It's been about a decade since I moved to Linux. Just skimming the latest VS docs though, the structure of unit testing within VS pretty identical to how it was. The feedback is a little more inline and I guess the extensions are a fairly big deal... But that sort of lends to my point that the IDE is still pushing itself down your throat for an IDE-centric build environment. The thing I've liked about collaboration since moving away from VS is our build and testing toolchains sit completely separate from development settings and IDE projects. It's very simple to switch things out and script in new workflows. It also means we don't need to install things like VS to test on a new (eg rebuilt production test) machine. I'm sure the same is possible in Microsoftland, I've just never —even recently, I still interact with .Net developers and their work product— seen people making use of it, falling back on what Mother thinks best. Maybe they're not serious enough developers.
    - oliwarner 9y ago
      On reflection, my last reply was a little short-sighted. Of course the untethering and later freeing of MSBuild has certainly helped Microsoft-tethered developers. The historical bias towards the IDE and component kits still exists —and probably will forever— but some of those things are reasons I found it so easy to pick and run with VB.NET and C#. I won't pretend it took me a while to work out what I was supposed to do when I left it all behind. That all said, they are getting closer to the point (may be there already) where you can go from Powershell to remote Powershell over SSH.. But that still assumes you're lunatic enough to want to host anything on Windows. I think I've had too much freedom for too long now to ever consider that a good idea.
politician 9y ago
Exactly; bash+ssh comes with decent options for terminal-based text editing. That's a huge win over Notepad and friends.

nailer 9y ago

Microsoft are writing a proper, tabbed multiprocess terminal for a future Windows 10 release.

voltagex_ 9y ago
Source? Is it in the Fast Ring yet?
- nailer 9y ago
  Guy in charge of it, Mike Griese, Software Engineer at Microsoft, writing on Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14099051 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14099051
- komodo 9y ago
  Console should benefit from the system wide 'Windows Sets' tabbing feature https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/11/tabs-come-to-every-window-in-windows-10-sets/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/11/tabs-come-to-every-w...

efdee 9y ago

Or maybe some people just need PuTTY for the SSH stuff, because they feel Powershell is superior to bash and related Unix shells.

oliwarner 9y ago
You missed a bit. > the people buying Macbooks, or using Linux directly [...] ... don't give two hoots about Powershell. Sorry, but I did limit what I was saying to describe people not using Windows.
- efdee 9y ago
  Technically the "you" in your statement is not the same person/people as "the people buying Macbooks or using Linux directly". But I see what you mean. Hopefully you also see what I mean - that nobody in their right minds would think that PuTTY is trying to be bash+ssh. PuTTY is the ssh part of that combination, and there are plenty of options to cover for the bash part too. PS: From the fact that you refer to Visual Studio as "VS.Net", I take it that you haven't been in Microsoftland for a while. No serious developer uses these "play-buttons" to do their automated testing and/or deployment.
  - oliwarner 9y ago
    > I take it that you haven't been in Microsoftland for a while It's been about a decade since I moved to Linux. Just skimming the latest VS docs though, the structure of unit testing within VS pretty identical to how it was. The feedback is a little more inline and I guess the extensions are a fairly big deal... But that sort of lends to my point that the IDE is still pushing itself down your throat for an IDE-centric build environment. The thing I've liked about collaboration since moving away from VS is our build and testing toolchains sit completely separate from development settings and IDE projects. It's very simple to switch things out and script in new workflows. It also means we don't need to install things like VS to test on a new (eg rebuilt production test) machine. I'm sure the same is possible in Microsoftland, I've just never —even recently, I still interact with .Net developers and their work product— seen people making use of it, falling back on what Mother thinks best. Maybe they're not serious enough developers.
  - oliwarner 9y ago
    On reflection, my last reply was a little short-sighted. Of course the untethering and later freeing of MSBuild has certainly helped Microsoft-tethered developers. The historical bias towards the IDE and component kits still exists —and probably will forever— but some of those things are reasons I found it so easy to pick and run with VB.NET and C#. I won't pretend it took me a while to work out what I was supposed to do when I left it all behind. That all said, they are getting closer to the point (may be there already) where you can go from Powershell to remote Powershell over SSH.. But that still assumes you're lunatic enough to want to host anything on Windows. I think I've had too much freedom for too long now to ever consider that a good idea.

politician 9y ago

Exactly; bash+ssh comes with decent options for terminal-based text editing. That's a huge win over Notepad and friends.