6 ms·

I liked the article; it expressed something that had been lingering on the edges of my subconscious, but that I had never brought to light - like most good arti

by johnfn 16y ago

I liked the article; it expressed something that had been lingering on the edges of my subconscious, but that I had never brought to light - like most good articles do. What I don't see is why it had to have an anti-American bias. It doesn't help make your point, and all it does is antagonize your American readers. I am an American, I also take walks.

ohyes 16y ago
As a fellow American who takes walks,I disagree with the perceived antagonism. I think part of the point is that there is something deep-seeded in our culture that punishes idleness. That is the social anxiety he describes. I do have a little anxiety when I'm going for a walk, alone, not particularly doing or thinking anything. Will people think I'm some sort of weirdo? The observation that this worry is itself worrisome is an observation I can identify with.
- rdtsc 16y ago
  > I think part of the point is that there is something deep-seeded in our culture that punishes idleness. I observed the same thing. I have lived half my life here, half in Eastern Europe. I remember we used to take walks with my family after dinner growing up. Here in US it is harder because it is so unusual. I guess life is faster paced, but I think at some point it becomes counter-productive. Being fast-paced works very well for manual labor, not for problem solving. Hard problems can only be solved on a clear, rested mind, sometime a walk does just that.
  - ywgdana 16y ago
    I'm not sure I'd attribute it to a fast-paced lifestyle. My guess is that most people plunk down and just watch TV (or surf the web these days) after supper. After dinner walks would be a step towards a faster-pasted lifestyle :P It seems more like it's tied to the importance placed on property ownership and lack of public common spaces. (Well, there's probably a feedback loop going on) We convince ourselves that owning a home in the suburb is so important and so wonderful that naturally we stay at home and enjoy our house.
- barrkel 16y ago
  An acquaintance of mine (Irish like me) visited the US some time in the mid 90s. He took a walk in a suburban area, and was surprised to find himself being followed by a police car before long. When they stopped and asked him what he was doing, it dawned on him that because he wasn't jogging, or walking a dog etc., someone had actually called the police when they saw a stranger walking aimlessly down their road. Needless to say, all of us back home were appalled by this apparently fearful and paranoid US cultural trait.
  - nandemo 16y ago
    Reminds me of Bob Dylan being questioned by the police due to walking around in New Jersey. The incident began at 5 p.m. when a resident reported a man wandering around a low-income, predominantly minority neighbourhood several blocks from the oceanfront, looking at houses. (...) "What is your name, sir?" the officer asked. "Bob Dylan," Dylan said. "OK, what are you doing here?" the officer asked. "I'm on tour," the singer replied. http://www.cbc.ca/arts/music/story/2009/08/15/dylan-police.html http://www.cbc.ca/arts/music/story/2009/08/15/dylan-police.h...
  - zbyszek 16y ago
    Something similar happened to me in the US, but then again I've been stopped by the police in the UK too while out for a walk. In the latter case it was about 4 a.m. and I must have looked suspiciously sober.
    - barrkel 16y ago
      I find the UK oddly authoritarian / rigid in many of these ways. My GF and myself decided to go to a lake (actually some kind of reservoir) near London on a hot day a month or two ago, and were rather surprised to find out that the lake closed at 6pm. The very concept of a lake closing, never mind at 6pm on a summer evening (easily light out until 10:30), was alien to my Irish mind. Meanwhile, there was an article in the Guardian, about whether or not it's OK to go wild camping: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/aug/09/holidays-wild-camping-environmental-impact http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/aug/09/holidays-w... Similarly, the notion that going to a campsite could be described as camping was weird. I view campsites as more like unpleasant cheap muddy hotels - I grew up understanding one of the appeals of camping is being in the middle of nowhere, with nobody around. The idea of having other people, music, barbequeues, people drinking etc. all around sounds horrible to me.
brianpan 16y ago
I disliked the part where he assumes he can tell where someone is born by looking at them. :( I wonder if he thinks he looks like a native-born or an immigrant?
- philwelch 16y ago
  Can't you? People throw off subtle cues all the time, and whether they're native born or not is something that isn't hard to pick up from that. Conversely, take a native born person of Japanese or Indian descent, and send them to Japan or India. The natives there will be able to tell he isn't native born.
  - limist 16y ago
    Very true; even with the same clothes, body language often varies substantially from culture to culture. With a bit of travel and observation, it's quite apparent. A friend of mine who traveled to Central Asia was struck by how balanced people appeared; he found Westerners take up "too much space" in their movements, and East Asian people tended to do the opposite. But at least during his stay in Central Asia, he noticed the people there repeatedly showed an unconscious balance in their body language: neither too loud and aggressive, nor too quiet and subdued.
  - brianpan 16y ago
    You can see culture, not birthplace. Those are different things. If you see me on the street, I believe you will see my family culture (Chinese) and where I was brought up (American Midwest). You will not see where I was born (East Coast).
    - philwelch 16y ago
      I bet if I saw you on the street, you would register as American to me. (East Coast and Midwest register the same to me.) I would be able to tell you apart from someone who was actually born and raised in China. Conversely, if you went to China, the people there would be able to identify you as foreign-born. Your culture is similar and related to, but very different from, the culture of people still living in China. I might be able to tell you apart from more assimilated Americans of East Asian descent, though.

by johnfn 16y ago

ohyes 16y ago

As a fellow American who takes walks,I disagree with the perceived antagonism. I think part of the point is that there is something deep-seeded in our culture that punishes idleness. That is the social anxiety he describes. I do have a little anxiety when I'm going for a walk, alone, not particularly doing or thinking anything. Will people think I'm some sort of weirdo? The observation that this worry is itself worrisome is an observation I can identify with.

rdtsc 16y ago
> I think part of the point is that there is something deep-seeded in our culture that punishes idleness. I observed the same thing. I have lived half my life here, half in Eastern Europe. I remember we used to take walks with my family after dinner growing up. Here in US it is harder because it is so unusual. I guess life is faster paced, but I think at some point it becomes counter-productive. Being fast-paced works very well for manual labor, not for problem solving. Hard problems can only be solved on a clear, rested mind, sometime a walk does just that.
- ywgdana 16y ago
  I'm not sure I'd attribute it to a fast-paced lifestyle. My guess is that most people plunk down and just watch TV (or surf the web these days) after supper. After dinner walks would be a step towards a faster-pasted lifestyle :P It seems more like it's tied to the importance placed on property ownership and lack of public common spaces. (Well, there's probably a feedback loop going on) We convince ourselves that owning a home in the suburb is so important and so wonderful that naturally we stay at home and enjoy our house.
barrkel 16y ago
An acquaintance of mine (Irish like me) visited the US some time in the mid 90s. He took a walk in a suburban area, and was surprised to find himself being followed by a police car before long. When they stopped and asked him what he was doing, it dawned on him that because he wasn't jogging, or walking a dog etc., someone had actually called the police when they saw a stranger walking aimlessly down their road. Needless to say, all of us back home were appalled by this apparently fearful and paranoid US cultural trait.
- nandemo 16y ago
  Reminds me of Bob Dylan being questioned by the police due to walking around in New Jersey. The incident began at 5 p.m. when a resident reported a man wandering around a low-income, predominantly minority neighbourhood several blocks from the oceanfront, looking at houses. (...) "What is your name, sir?" the officer asked. "Bob Dylan," Dylan said. "OK, what are you doing here?" the officer asked. "I'm on tour," the singer replied. http://www.cbc.ca/arts/music/story/2009/08/15/dylan-police.html http://www.cbc.ca/arts/music/story/2009/08/15/dylan-police.h...
- zbyszek 16y ago
  Something similar happened to me in the US, but then again I've been stopped by the police in the UK too while out for a walk. In the latter case it was about 4 a.m. and I must have looked suspiciously sober.
  - barrkel 16y ago
    I find the UK oddly authoritarian / rigid in many of these ways. My GF and myself decided to go to a lake (actually some kind of reservoir) near London on a hot day a month or two ago, and were rather surprised to find out that the lake closed at 6pm. The very concept of a lake closing, never mind at 6pm on a summer evening (easily light out until 10:30), was alien to my Irish mind. Meanwhile, there was an article in the Guardian, about whether or not it's OK to go wild camping: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/aug/09/holidays-wild-camping-environmental-impact http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/aug/09/holidays-w... Similarly, the notion that going to a campsite could be described as camping was weird. I view campsites as more like unpleasant cheap muddy hotels - I grew up understanding one of the appeals of camping is being in the middle of nowhere, with nobody around. The idea of having other people, music, barbequeues, people drinking etc. all around sounds horrible to me.

brianpan 16y ago

I disliked the part where he assumes he can tell where someone is born by looking at them. :( I wonder if he thinks he looks like a native-born or an immigrant?

philwelch 16y ago
Can't you? People throw off subtle cues all the time, and whether they're native born or not is something that isn't hard to pick up from that. Conversely, take a native born person of Japanese or Indian descent, and send them to Japan or India. The natives there will be able to tell he isn't native born.
- limist 16y ago
  Very true; even with the same clothes, body language often varies substantially from culture to culture. With a bit of travel and observation, it's quite apparent. A friend of mine who traveled to Central Asia was struck by how balanced people appeared; he found Westerners take up "too much space" in their movements, and East Asian people tended to do the opposite. But at least during his stay in Central Asia, he noticed the people there repeatedly showed an unconscious balance in their body language: neither too loud and aggressive, nor too quiet and subdued.
- brianpan 16y ago
  You can see culture, not birthplace. Those are different things. If you see me on the street, I believe you will see my family culture (Chinese) and where I was brought up (American Midwest). You will not see where I was born (East Coast).
  - philwelch 16y ago
    I bet if I saw you on the street, you would register as American to me. (East Coast and Midwest register the same to me.) I would be able to tell you apart from someone who was actually born and raised in China. Conversely, if you went to China, the people there would be able to identify you as foreign-born. Your culture is similar and related to, but very different from, the culture of people still living in China. I might be able to tell you apart from more assimilated Americans of East Asian descent, though.