5 ms·

Quite a worldview you have there. Is there any actual evidence of a CIA coup in the US?

nl 9y ago
Is there any actual evidence of a CIA coup in the US? Of course there isn't. But as the OP says, the lack of evidence doesn't mean it won't soon be accepted that it happened (although I suspect this wasn't what they were trying to say). The "9/11 was a US government conspiracy" (and various versions of that) makes it clear how easy it is to sell conspiracy theories, and that was only 16 years ago.
- GeorgeTirebiter 9y ago
  What would you consider as 'actual evidence'? Do you believe the Warren Commission word-for-word? (If so, then I am concerned about your ability to gloss over obvious errors.) If you take the WC with a grain of salt, what prompts you to have unshakable belief that power groups inside and outside of the US Government haven't puppet-stringed it from time to time? Have you read credible research on these subjects? Not crackpots, those are everywhere. I mean well-researched, documented, foot-noted work. I'm just trying to find out where you're coming from so I can suggest a Reading List for you so we can intelligently discuss this. Thanks!
  - IIIUwe299 9y ago
    > I'm just trying to find out where you're coming from so I can suggest a Reading List for you so we can intelligently discuss this. I'd like to point out how smug this line is, in case you haven't noticed. This kind of thing isn't useful to HN discussion, imo.
coldtea 9y ago
There is only evidence of coups only in cheapo banana republics, where life is cheap, stakes low, and few care about there being evidence or not. Big western countries can't afford to leave evidence in any internal meddling. Heck, even the "final solution" orders weren't put in signing, and that wasn't even a regime that cared much for their public perception in the matter... http://www.historynet.com/did-hitler-sign-a-document-authorizing-the-killing-of-the-jews.htm http://www.historynet.com/did-hitler-sign-a-document-authori... (Besides, absence of evidence, as any scientist knows, is not evidence of absence).
- lb1lf 9y ago
  > Heck, even the "final solution" orders weren't put in signing -The "Final Solution"(tm) was basically just that - the logical conclusion to a number of gradual steps being taken in that direction, getting increasingly lethal. The original intent was to rid Europe of its Jewish population, and as the war progressed (and, conjecturing on my part, as the Nazi regime became more and more desensitized to such inconveniences as reluctance to performing atrocities), killing them all off seemed like a workable solution. Early in the war one senior nazi (Eichmann? Sounds like something Eichmann could think up) voiced a plan to have European jews shipped en masse to Madagascar to create a Jewish heimat there; after invading The Soviet Union, it was suggested that jews could be deported to Siberia. Eventually it turned out extermination camps were more workable. IIRC, to the extent you can say that one man was the driving force behind the Holocaust, that would be Reinhard Heydrich, an ambitious, ruthless SOB in the SS who called the Wannsee conference where various branches of the Nazi machine decided that organized mass murder was the way to go; it has been argued that part of his motivation was an attempt to gain favour with Hitler and to be seen as a man of action. (Then again, if Heydrich hadn't stepped up, someone else likely would)
- yesenadam 9y ago
  >Heck, even the "final solution" orders weren't put in signing I believe that's not at all how Hitler operated. He'd vaguely suggest things to his underlings, who would then go off and do something like what they guessed he wanted. Sounds an incredibly up-in-the-air way of doing things. I learnt about that from the excellent series Nazis: A Warning from History. After watching that you won't be in the least surprised there's no paper record of any particular initiative. (So I didn't look at that link.)

nl 9y ago

Is there any actual evidence of a CIA coup in the US? Of course there isn't. But as the OP says, the lack of evidence doesn't mean it won't soon be accepted that it happened (although I suspect this wasn't what they were trying to say). The "9/11 was a US government conspiracy" (and various versions of that) makes it clear how easy it is to sell conspiracy theories, and that was only 16 years ago.

GeorgeTirebiter 9y ago
What would you consider as 'actual evidence'? Do you believe the Warren Commission word-for-word? (If so, then I am concerned about your ability to gloss over obvious errors.) If you take the WC with a grain of salt, what prompts you to have unshakable belief that power groups inside and outside of the US Government haven't puppet-stringed it from time to time? Have you read credible research on these subjects? Not crackpots, those are everywhere. I mean well-researched, documented, foot-noted work. I'm just trying to find out where you're coming from so I can suggest a Reading List for you so we can intelligently discuss this. Thanks!
- IIIUwe299 9y ago
  > I'm just trying to find out where you're coming from so I can suggest a Reading List for you so we can intelligently discuss this. I'd like to point out how smug this line is, in case you haven't noticed. This kind of thing isn't useful to HN discussion, imo.

coldtea 9y ago

There is only evidence of coups only in cheapo banana republics, where life is cheap, stakes low, and few care about there being evidence or not. Big western countries can't afford to leave evidence in any internal meddling. Heck, even the "final solution" orders weren't put in signing, and that wasn't even a regime that cared much for their public perception in the matter... http://www.historynet.com/did-hitler-sign-a-document-authorizing-the-killing-of-the-jews.htm http://www.historynet.com/did-hitler-sign-a-document-authori... (Besides, absence of evidence, as any scientist knows, is not evidence of absence).

lb1lf 9y ago
> Heck, even the "final solution" orders weren't put in signing -The "Final Solution"(tm) was basically just that - the logical conclusion to a number of gradual steps being taken in that direction, getting increasingly lethal. The original intent was to rid Europe of its Jewish population, and as the war progressed (and, conjecturing on my part, as the Nazi regime became more and more desensitized to such inconveniences as reluctance to performing atrocities), killing them all off seemed like a workable solution. Early in the war one senior nazi (Eichmann? Sounds like something Eichmann could think up) voiced a plan to have European jews shipped en masse to Madagascar to create a Jewish heimat there; after invading The Soviet Union, it was suggested that jews could be deported to Siberia. Eventually it turned out extermination camps were more workable. IIRC, to the extent you can say that one man was the driving force behind the Holocaust, that would be Reinhard Heydrich, an ambitious, ruthless SOB in the SS who called the Wannsee conference where various branches of the Nazi machine decided that organized mass murder was the way to go; it has been argued that part of his motivation was an attempt to gain favour with Hitler and to be seen as a man of action. (Then again, if Heydrich hadn't stepped up, someone else likely would)
yesenadam 9y ago
>Heck, even the "final solution" orders weren't put in signing I believe that's not at all how Hitler operated. He'd vaguely suggest things to his underlings, who would then go off and do something like what they guessed he wanted. Sounds an incredibly up-in-the-air way of doing things. I learnt about that from the excellent series Nazis: A Warning from History. After watching that you won't be in the least surprised there's no paper record of any particular initiative. (So I didn't look at that link.)