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A toy is by definition only for children. The Switch is a video game system for all ages, so it’s not a toy … unless you think video games are only for children

A toy is by definition only for children. The Switch is a video game system for all ages, so it’s not a toy … unless you think video games are only for children.

32bitkid 9y ago
I'm not sure I agree with this definition of a "toy"; to me is an item used primarily for "play" (or not exclusively for "work"/"productivity"). Play is most definitely not restricted to children.
- SimeVidas 9y ago
  Either all major video game consoles are toys, or none of them are. And since they are designed for all age groups, I wouldn’t call them toys, because that unnecessarily associates them with children.
  - eric_h 9y ago
    Whenever I buy a new piece of electronics (say, a new iPhone or a new laptop), I call it my new toy. Toys aren't just for kids, just like fun isn't just for kids.
    - SimeVidas 9y ago
      Yes, and I call my cat baby. That‘s fine but in discussions, we should stick to the words’ actual meanings. When you say, video game consoles are toys, you‘re (inadvertently) making a statement that video games are for children. That‘s what you sound like, whether you like it or not. It‘s because most people associate toys with children. So let‘s acknowledge that, and use terms that highlight that video games are for all ages, instead of the opposite.
      - hug 9y ago
        I am quite nonplussed by your linguistic prescriptivism. It is, however a moot point in a discussion about Nintendo's products. I appreciate your efforts to remain cordial, however. (In case you didn't get it: All of those words once meant or possibly still currently mean the opposite of the way in which they're being used in this comment. Language is what you make of it.)
  - golergka 9y ago
    > Either all major video game consoles are toys, or none of them are. It seems that you're approaching this from a mathematical logic standpoint - if we have a definition of A, then either each X is A or is not A, and since (1) definition of "toy" is based on certain characteristics and the set of "video game consoles" all have the same values for these characteristics, then they either are toys or not. However, the things we're discussing here are based on subjective feelings and nuance, and are also recursive - in this domain, we assign the statement "X is A" a higher probability just because people in general agree with the statement "X is A" (think Wittgenstein's "meaning is use"). Using mathematical logic in such domains is not very constructive.
hug 9y ago
Think you might want to re-examine your logic there, my friend. Just because something is for one group, doesn’t mean that it’s illegal for another group to use it. Yeah, I think the Switch is for children. I think it’s designed to appeal to kids and be sold, primarily, to kids. I also think that a lot of adults appreciate it regardless because a good toy can appeal to more than just the young. If you think adults can gain no value from a toy, you are definitely not living the happiest life you could live.
- SimeVidas 9y ago
  Based on Nintendo’s marketing, the Switch is targeted at young adults. Why do you think it’s for children? The colorful controllers? The art style of the games?
fizx 9y ago
Someone hasn't heard of sex toys.
- SimeVidas 9y ago
  A sex toy is by definition not a type of toy (yes, that’s possible). I’m literally just using the dictionary.
  - rainbowmverse 9y ago
    You have the direction backwards. The dictionary imperfectly describes language. It doesn't define it.
    - SimeVidas 9y ago
      A dictionary explains a word’s meaning. I‘m going by the dictionary. You’re free to make up your own definitions, but according to the dictionary, a toy is intended for children. Video game consoles are intended for all ages (equally), so they cannot be considered toys.
      - rainbowmverse 9y ago
        A dictionary describes some common uses. It is not comprehensive or authoritative. It changes with the language, not the other way around. Language defines the dictionary, sometimes with a very long lag. Several people have told you of a definition not present in whatever dictionary you referred to. This is meaningful.
        SimeVidas 9y ago
        If you were to ask any group of people whether toys are intended for children, the majority would say yes. Do we at least agree on that? If would be more useful for all of us, if we, in discussions, used terms in ways that align with what the majority thinks those terms represent. Because if we don’t, we create confusion. This is unnecessary and just wastes our time.
kbutler 9y ago
I like the distinction that a game has specific goals, but a toy is just to play with. You can make up your own games to play with toys. So the more sandboxy a game is (Minecraft) the more it is a toy, but the more you are on rails or limited in what you can do (Tetris), the more it is a game.

A toy is by definition only for children. The Switch is a video game system for all ages, so it’s not a toy … unless you think video games are only for children.

32bitkid 9y ago

I'm not sure I agree with this definition of a "toy"; to me is an item used primarily for "play" (or not exclusively for "work"/"productivity"). Play is most definitely not restricted to children.

SimeVidas 9y ago
Either all major video game consoles are toys, or none of them are. And since they are designed for all age groups, I wouldn’t call them toys, because that unnecessarily associates them with children.
- eric_h 9y ago
  Whenever I buy a new piece of electronics (say, a new iPhone or a new laptop), I call it my new toy. Toys aren't just for kids, just like fun isn't just for kids.
  - SimeVidas 9y ago
    Yes, and I call my cat baby. That‘s fine but in discussions, we should stick to the words’ actual meanings. When you say, video game consoles are toys, you‘re (inadvertently) making a statement that video games are for children. That‘s what you sound like, whether you like it or not. It‘s because most people associate toys with children. So let‘s acknowledge that, and use terms that highlight that video games are for all ages, instead of the opposite.
    - hug 9y ago
      I am quite nonplussed by your linguistic prescriptivism. It is, however a moot point in a discussion about Nintendo's products. I appreciate your efforts to remain cordial, however. (In case you didn't get it: All of those words once meant or possibly still currently mean the opposite of the way in which they're being used in this comment. Language is what you make of it.)
- golergka 9y ago
  > Either all major video game consoles are toys, or none of them are. It seems that you're approaching this from a mathematical logic standpoint - if we have a definition of A, then either each X is A or is not A, and since (1) definition of "toy" is based on certain characteristics and the set of "video game consoles" all have the same values for these characteristics, then they either are toys or not. However, the things we're discussing here are based on subjective feelings and nuance, and are also recursive - in this domain, we assign the statement "X is A" a higher probability just because people in general agree with the statement "X is A" (think Wittgenstein's "meaning is use"). Using mathematical logic in such domains is not very constructive.

hug 9y ago

Think you might want to re-examine your logic there, my friend. Just because something is for one group, doesn’t mean that it’s illegal for another group to use it. Yeah, I think the Switch is for children. I think it’s designed to appeal to kids and be sold, primarily, to kids. I also think that a lot of adults appreciate it regardless because a good toy can appeal to more than just the young. If you think adults can gain no value from a toy, you are definitely not living the happiest life you could live.

SimeVidas 9y ago
Based on Nintendo’s marketing, the Switch is targeted at young adults. Why do you think it’s for children? The colorful controllers? The art style of the games?

fizx 9y ago

Someone hasn't heard of sex toys.

SimeVidas 9y ago
A sex toy is by definition not a type of toy (yes, that’s possible). I’m literally just using the dictionary.
- rainbowmverse 9y ago
  You have the direction backwards. The dictionary imperfectly describes language. It doesn't define it.
  - SimeVidas 9y ago
    A dictionary explains a word’s meaning. I‘m going by the dictionary. You’re free to make up your own definitions, but according to the dictionary, a toy is intended for children. Video game consoles are intended for all ages (equally), so they cannot be considered toys.
    - rainbowmverse 9y ago
      A dictionary describes some common uses. It is not comprehensive or authoritative. It changes with the language, not the other way around. Language defines the dictionary, sometimes with a very long lag. Several people have told you of a definition not present in whatever dictionary you referred to. This is meaningful.
      - SimeVidas 9y ago
        If you were to ask any group of people whether toys are intended for children, the majority would say yes. Do we at least agree on that? If would be more useful for all of us, if we, in discussions, used terms in ways that align with what the majority thinks those terms represent. Because if we don’t, we create confusion. This is unnecessary and just wastes our time.

kbutler 9y ago

I like the distinction that a game has specific goals, but a toy is just to play with. You can make up your own games to play with toys. So the more sandboxy a game is (Minecraft) the more it is a toy, but the more you are on rails or limited in what you can do (Tetris), the more it is a game.