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Interestingly, I find that it is difficult to escape the expectation of getting new things unless you're already wealthy. Poorer people can't afford a high qual

by Qworg 9y ago

Interestingly, I find that it is difficult to escape the expectation of getting new things unless you're already wealthy. Poorer people can't afford a high quality new thing, so they buy a cheaper one to replace its utility. However, that object breaks, so they have to buy it again. Is there a way to create the conditions of minimalism for everyone?

jdavis703 9y ago
There are some fintech startups working on this idea. One of them is basically trying to bank the unbanked and then give their "safe" customers access to a no-interest loan when they need to make a large purchase or have an emergency come up (this is similar to schemes like PayPal Capital, except for consumers). That, combined with more education around the axiom of "I'm too poor to buy cheap things" would help provide more knowledge around reducing consumer culture.
- frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
  How do you make money providing no interest loans to the unbanked? Do you have an example of a startup like that?
  - jdavis703 9y ago
    I can't name names, but the idea is you find other ways to extract the money. For example the benefit could be offered as part of a person's employment or it could be done through rev-share partnerships with retailers and consumer services companies.
  - mLuby 9y ago
    Companies selling to "the Unbanked" may be willing to pay a fee to someone bringing those otherwise unattainable sales to them. Not sure, but perhaps something like LendingCircle?
snarf21 9y ago
I agree that this is true but so many of the things we buy have no utility. It is the chase that kills us (me included) not that we need some things. There are groups that have that mindset to want less, to avoid the chase, like the Amish. (Not that they don't have other problems). I think even simple rules can help though: * If haven't used something in the last year, sell it or get rid of it. * If you want to buy something that costs more than $X, wait a two weeks. If you still want it, wait two more weeks. If you still want it, then buy it. (So much of our spending is impulse). * Don't have cash/cards easily accessible or always on you or "saved" in sites you use. Having hurdles to spend money prevents it for things you don't need. This also means making a grocery list and only taking along enough money to buy what's on your list. * Buy used or thrift. I buy almost all of my clothes on eBay. High quality, name brand stuff that retails for $75-$150 for $15 shipped. This is even more true if you are a less popular size. * etc.....
- pizza234 9y ago
  > There are groups that have that mindset to want less, to avoid the chase, like the Amish. (Not that they don't have other problems). I do, and I educated myself to it. Interestingly, buying something (intended as adding) for me, is as painful as it is to lose something for other general people.
simcop2387 9y ago
This is sometimes called a "Ghetto Tax" [1] or the Sam Vimes [2] boots theory of socioeconomic unfairness. I think mass production helps a bit with this by reducing the costs of things, but it doesn't really address the problem. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/19/us/19poor.html?ei=5088&en=67ee8891360eb90c&ex=1310961600&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1195171765-CHTXi6UcJPV1nUCaM9ERqw&pagewanted=print http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/19/us/19poor.html?ei=5088&en=... [2] http://discworld.wikia.com/wiki/Samuel_Vimes#Vimes.27_Boots http://discworld.wikia.com/wiki/Samuel_Vimes#Vimes.27_Boots
ianai 9y ago
I think people could achieve that same feeling through buying actual consumables (in part). Going to the grocery store in search of comice pears has really fulfilled that desire for “unobtainium”. Plus they’re delicious.
pizza234 9y ago
> Poorer people can't afford a high quality new thing, so they buy a cheaper one to replace its utility I'm somewhat (but not entirely) skeptical about this, as price does not necessarily equates to build quality, but also to functionality; in addition to that, obsolence can be engineered also in high-end products (infamously, washing machines), therefore, in the full range. > Is there a way to create the conditions of minimalism for everyone? I am a (relative) minimalist, but I think that paradoxically, minimalist is an unnatural human condition, as much as dieting is, as hoarding goods (both material and immaterial) is deeply rooted in human psyche. Of course, this could be "tamed" the same way violence is, but there are many incentives to tame violence, and comparatively none (in real world; of course, ideally, there is plenty) to "tame consumption".

by Qworg 9y ago

jdavis703 9y ago

There are some fintech startups working on this idea. One of them is basically trying to bank the unbanked and then give their "safe" customers access to a no-interest loan when they need to make a large purchase or have an emergency come up (this is similar to schemes like PayPal Capital, except for consumers). That, combined with more education around the axiom of "I'm too poor to buy cheap things" would help provide more knowledge around reducing consumer culture.

frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
How do you make money providing no interest loans to the unbanked? Do you have an example of a startup like that?
- jdavis703 9y ago
  I can't name names, but the idea is you find other ways to extract the money. For example the benefit could be offered as part of a person's employment or it could be done through rev-share partnerships with retailers and consumer services companies.
- mLuby 9y ago
  Companies selling to "the Unbanked" may be willing to pay a fee to someone bringing those otherwise unattainable sales to them. Not sure, but perhaps something like LendingCircle?

snarf21 9y ago

I agree that this is true but so many of the things we buy have no utility. It is the chase that kills us (me included) not that we need some things. There are groups that have that mindset to want less, to avoid the chase, like the Amish. (Not that they don't have other problems). I think even simple rules can help though: * If haven't used something in the last year, sell it or get rid of it. * If you want to buy something that costs more than $X, wait a two weeks. If you still want it, wait two more weeks. If you still want it, then buy it. (So much of our spending is impulse). * Don't have cash/cards easily accessible or always on you or "saved" in sites you use. Having hurdles to spend money prevents it for things you don't need. This also means making a grocery list and only taking along enough money to buy what's on your list. * Buy used or thrift. I buy almost all of my clothes on eBay. High quality, name brand stuff that retails for $75-$150 for $15 shipped. This is even more true if you are a less popular size. * etc.....

pizza234 9y ago
> There are groups that have that mindset to want less, to avoid the chase, like the Amish. (Not that they don't have other problems). I do, and I educated myself to it. Interestingly, buying something (intended as adding) for me, is as painful as it is to lose something for other general people.

simcop2387 9y ago

This is sometimes called a "Ghetto Tax" [1] or the Sam Vimes [2] boots theory of socioeconomic unfairness. I think mass production helps a bit with this by reducing the costs of things, but it doesn't really address the problem. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/19/us/19poor.html?ei=5088&en=67ee8891360eb90c&ex=1310961600&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1195171765-CHTXi6UcJPV1nUCaM9ERqw&pagewanted=print http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/19/us/19poor.html?ei=5088&en=... [2] http://discworld.wikia.com/wiki/Samuel_Vimes#Vimes.27_Boots http://discworld.wikia.com/wiki/Samuel_Vimes#Vimes.27_Boots

ianai 9y ago

I think people could achieve that same feeling through buying actual consumables (in part). Going to the grocery store in search of comice pears has really fulfilled that desire for “unobtainium”. Plus they’re delicious.

pizza234 9y ago

> Poorer people can't afford a high quality new thing, so they buy a cheaper one to replace its utility I'm somewhat (but not entirely) skeptical about this, as price does not necessarily equates to build quality, but also to functionality; in addition to that, obsolence can be engineered also in high-end products (infamously, washing machines), therefore, in the full range. > Is there a way to create the conditions of minimalism for everyone? I am a (relative) minimalist, but I think that paradoxically, minimalist is an unnatural human condition, as much as dieting is, as hoarding goods (both material and immaterial) is deeply rooted in human psyche. Of course, this could be "tamed" the same way violence is, but there are many incentives to tame violence, and comparatively none (in real world; of course, ideally, there is plenty) to "tame consumption".