5 ms·

Revenue Is Product Management [audio]

59 points by jeffmorrisjr 9y ago

dpeck 9y ago
Does the "* is product management" feel odd to everyone else? Its become so generalized that it basically comes down to anyone who gets things done but doesn't have direct reports (and sometimes even when they do) thinks of themselves as a product manager. I very much think that there is a role for these sorts of people, but being called product management has always seemed like an odd label to apply and something it seems everyone either struggles to define or outright ignores others definitions.
- jeffmorrisjr 9y ago
  What are better labels in your mind? Product Management is much more than "gets things done but doesn't have direct reports". If you've worked with great PM's and been a part of A+ product teams, you would see that the set of responsibilities is actually much more meaningful.
  - dpeck 9y ago
    Im not sure there is a better label, but I don't think that that makes it any less odd because I can't come up with one :) Looking at past episodes of this OP podcast (https://www.thisisproductmanagement.com/episodes/ https://www.thisisproductmanagement.com/episodes/) the following are, amongst others, aspects of product management: R&D Building Human Machines Employee Experience Building APIs Consulting Pricing Customer Experience Venture Capital Now I don't disagree with that at all, and have been involved with those things and many more, but at some point the definition becomes overly broad as to not mean anything outside of a specific organization being referenced.
    - jeffmorrisjr 9y ago
      Fair enough. I'd say the titles are probably more indicative of the podcast wanting to have a diverse set of interviews. The Product Management role is much more focused than that, promise.
    - rock_hard 9y ago
      I think Product Managements responsibility’s are fairly straightforward: 1. Figure out a what success means for your venture 2. Come up with a strategy that leads to said success 3. Get your team to execute on that strategy (and never forget that you can be wrong about the strategy, but you can’t fuck up the execution...since otherwise you will never find out if the strategy works) Now implementing this is far less straightforward...
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - allenz 9y ago
        None of that is specific to product management as opposed to management in general.
        rock_hard 9y ago
        The difference being that as a PM you have to do it without organizational power over anyone on your team...very much unlike a classic manager!
- ryanSrich 9y ago
  As a product leader it becomes incredibly old. The actual discussions and interviews are enjoyable. However, I see the Product Management role/industry taking the same path as UI/UX design. No. Not everything is a design problem. No. Not everything can be solved with "design thinking". As Product Management becomes more popular we'll start to see the rise of the product "guru". The design industry is filled with self-help, anti-intellectual money grubbers that have never actually built anything of use. They bolster their guru career with the fact that they worked at Facebook for six months. The same thing will start to happen to Product Management.
  - dpeck 9y ago
    Absolutely, seeing the same thing happen but didn’t see the similarities with UI/UX until you mentioned it. That is right on. I credit much of it to the rise of people like Marissa Meyer doing similar things to the PM world as people like Jonny Ives did in the UX world. Individuals making that big of a splash significantly alter the perception of their field.
  - tensor 9y ago
    Considering that "design thinking" is literally just critical thinking with some super simple guiding steps on problem solving, I'm curious to know what you think it doesn't apply to or what can't be solved with such a generic framework? I mean the process is literally: 1. Understand the problem. 2. Define the problem. 3. Come up with ideas for solutions. 4. Test the solutions. And iterate 3 and 4 until you have something you are happy with. It's hard to imagine how you can arrive at a solution in any other way. edit: And this isn't to say that I'm defending design thinking, I personally don't like the term or the buzz around it, but I can't fault the process itself. I'm sure many people use it already.
    - mpweiher 9y ago
      > just critical thinking And there is your answer. It's not "design thinking", it's straightforward problem solving that's been used by engineers (and others) since forever. In the best case, re-branding it "design thinking" adds nothing. More typically, it subtracts significantly.

59 points by jeffmorrisjr 9y ago

Does the "* is product management" feel odd to everyone else? Its become so generalized that it basically comes down to anyone who gets things done but doesn't have direct reports (and sometimes even when they do) thinks of themselves as a product manager. I very much think that there is a role for these sorts of people, but being called product management has always seemed like an odd label to apply and something it seems everyone either struggles to define or outright ignores others definitions.

jeffmorrisjr 9y ago
What are better labels in your mind? Product Management is much more than "gets things done but doesn't have direct reports". If you've worked with great PM's and been a part of A+ product teams, you would see that the set of responsibilities is actually much more meaningful.
- dpeck 9y ago
  Im not sure there is a better label, but I don't think that that makes it any less odd because I can't come up with one :) Looking at past episodes of this OP podcast (https://www.thisisproductmanagement.com/episodes/ https://www.thisisproductmanagement.com/episodes/) the following are, amongst others, aspects of product management: R&D Building Human Machines Employee Experience Building APIs Consulting Pricing Customer Experience Venture Capital Now I don't disagree with that at all, and have been involved with those things and many more, but at some point the definition becomes overly broad as to not mean anything outside of a specific organization being referenced.
  - jeffmorrisjr 9y ago
    Fair enough. I'd say the titles are probably more indicative of the podcast wanting to have a diverse set of interviews. The Product Management role is much more focused than that, promise.
  - rock_hard 9y ago
    I think Product Managements responsibility’s are fairly straightforward: 1. Figure out a what success means for your venture 2. Come up with a strategy that leads to said success 3. Get your team to execute on that strategy (and never forget that you can be wrong about the strategy, but you can’t fuck up the execution...since otherwise you will never find out if the strategy works) Now implementing this is far less straightforward...
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - allenz 9y ago
      None of that is specific to product management as opposed to management in general.
      - rock_hard 9y ago
        The difference being that as a PM you have to do it without organizational power over anyone on your team...very much unlike a classic manager!
ryanSrich 9y ago
As a product leader it becomes incredibly old. The actual discussions and interviews are enjoyable. However, I see the Product Management role/industry taking the same path as UI/UX design. No. Not everything is a design problem. No. Not everything can be solved with "design thinking". As Product Management becomes more popular we'll start to see the rise of the product "guru". The design industry is filled with self-help, anti-intellectual money grubbers that have never actually built anything of use. They bolster their guru career with the fact that they worked at Facebook for six months. The same thing will start to happen to Product Management.
- dpeck 9y ago
  Absolutely, seeing the same thing happen but didn’t see the similarities with UI/UX until you mentioned it. That is right on. I credit much of it to the rise of people like Marissa Meyer doing similar things to the PM world as people like Jonny Ives did in the UX world. Individuals making that big of a splash significantly alter the perception of their field.
- tensor 9y ago
  Considering that "design thinking" is literally just critical thinking with some super simple guiding steps on problem solving, I'm curious to know what you think it doesn't apply to or what can't be solved with such a generic framework? I mean the process is literally: 1. Understand the problem. 2. Define the problem. 3. Come up with ideas for solutions. 4. Test the solutions. And iterate 3 and 4 until you have something you are happy with. It's hard to imagine how you can arrive at a solution in any other way. edit: And this isn't to say that I'm defending design thinking, I personally don't like the term or the buzz around it, but I can't fault the process itself. I'm sure many people use it already.
  - mpweiher 9y ago
    > just critical thinking And there is your answer. It's not "design thinking", it's straightforward problem solving that's been used by engineers (and others) since forever. In the best case, re-branding it "design thinking" adds nothing. More typically, it subtracts significantly.