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yes, the customer isn't always right. The customer doesn't understand all the tradeoffs. If you make a car bigger, that comes with lots of compromises: less s

yes, the customer isn't always right. The customer doesn't understand all the tradeoffs. If you make a car bigger, that comes with lots of compromises: less style, less fuel economy, etc.

Slackwise 9y ago
The customer isn't always right, but, the customer also didn't ask for glued-in smartphone batteries, removing the MicroSD slot, or removing the headphone jack.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- bluGill 9y ago
  No, but the customer did ask for cheaper phones. They asked for water proof phones (to infinite depth). They like the way slimmer phones look. All of these conspire to push manufacturers to make the changes you have listed.
  - pessimizer 9y ago
    > They asked for water proof phones (to infinite depth) They definitely didn't. > They like the way slimmer phones look. Do they, or was that marketing that worked? Did they really want thinner phones that were too large to easily fit in a pocket?
    - Zak 9y ago
      > Did they really want thinner phones that were too large to easily fit in a pocket? For the most part, I think they do. Sony has been offering smaller (4.6", usually) phones for years. They're a little thicker than average, have reasonably competitive specs, fairly stock Android, unlockable bootloaders, SD cards and good cameras. Many of them were even waterproof. That's pretty much the feature set a large segment of the tech-savvy community has been asking for. How many of us have one? Meanwhile, phones larger than the current average tend to have strong sales. I think it's mainly driven by people using their phones for an increasing number of tasks they previously would have done on a PC.
      - bsder 9y ago
        Sony isn't a good example because it's phones are outrageously expensive relative to competition.
    - bluGill 9y ago
      They did. Many of my friends have dropped their phones in the tub or toilet over the years and asked for a phone that wouldn't be destroyed when that happens. Note that the point is customer behavior in buying does not match their stated desires. I own a fairly small phone that is waterproof (to 1 meter), but everybody I know thinks I'm weird for having an off brand phone.
    - Crespyl 9y ago
      What the market asked for is "the new phone", which frees up the manufacturers to select whatever (lack of) features makes their lives easy, and the market has demonstrated that they will keep lining up to buy the newest and most expensive models (so long as it doesn't literally explode in their pockets).
- mikestew 9y ago
  Isn’t that back to the Fordian “faster horse”, though? Or perhaps that falls apart with the glued-in battery, and instead it’s “you can have a faster horse, but we have to take the legs off and install wheels”. Or maybe analogies just don’t work, and it’s “you want it thin and waterproof? We can do that, but we’re gluing the battery in.” No, customers didn’t ask for such batteries, but customers did ask for other things that require a permanently installed battery.
  - pessimizer 9y ago
    > Isn’t that back to the Fordian “faster horse”, though? The Fordian "faster horse" doesn't have much merit, though. What customers wanted was a faster cart. That's also exactly what they got. What they wanted out of horses was for them to be easier to store, and cheaper and less labor intensive to maintain. They got bicycles and motorcycles.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
tabtab 9y ago
> The customer doesn't understand all the tradeoffs. Exactly! "Tuning" technology with the right features is an exercise in tradeoff-management. A better approach would be to ask customers to rank features, either against each other, and/or in general. "Driver visibility is more important to me than styling": [strongly agree][somewhat agree][not sure or mixed feelings][somewhat disagree][strongly disagree]. Of course styling is hard to judge without actually seeing what's at stake, but technical features may be easier to compare without visuals. However, doing such surveys right will require customers who are ready and willing to take longer surveys. Perhaps give a general brand gift certificate to participants. There are special ways to construct surveys to ensure responses actually reflect customer opinions (consistency checks).
PeterisP 9y ago
IMHO tradeoffs is the key word here. In all the auto examples, the customers said they liked X, but disliked Y - and then the manufactured fixed Y at some (slight, but still) cost to X, and that wasn't acceptable. The fact itself that they bought that car is an indicator that to them, X is far more valuable than Y - the "missing" feature is a nice to have thing that they'll consider as a differentiator only if the things they liked in the old car are the same or improved; they're not eager to trade off the feature because of which they bought the old car just to get the missing one.

yes, the customer isn't always right. The customer doesn't understand all the tradeoffs. If you make a car bigger, that comes with lots of compromises: less style, less fuel economy, etc.

Slackwise 9y ago

The customer isn't always right, but, the customer also didn't ask for glued-in smartphone batteries, removing the MicroSD slot, or removing the headphone jack.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
bluGill 9y ago
No, but the customer did ask for cheaper phones. They asked for water proof phones (to infinite depth). They like the way slimmer phones look. All of these conspire to push manufacturers to make the changes you have listed.
- pessimizer 9y ago
  > They asked for water proof phones (to infinite depth) They definitely didn't. > They like the way slimmer phones look. Do they, or was that marketing that worked? Did they really want thinner phones that were too large to easily fit in a pocket?
  - Zak 9y ago
    > Did they really want thinner phones that were too large to easily fit in a pocket? For the most part, I think they do. Sony has been offering smaller (4.6", usually) phones for years. They're a little thicker than average, have reasonably competitive specs, fairly stock Android, unlockable bootloaders, SD cards and good cameras. Many of them were even waterproof. That's pretty much the feature set a large segment of the tech-savvy community has been asking for. How many of us have one? Meanwhile, phones larger than the current average tend to have strong sales. I think it's mainly driven by people using their phones for an increasing number of tasks they previously would have done on a PC.
    - bsder 9y ago
      Sony isn't a good example because it's phones are outrageously expensive relative to competition.
  - bluGill 9y ago
    They did. Many of my friends have dropped their phones in the tub or toilet over the years and asked for a phone that wouldn't be destroyed when that happens. Note that the point is customer behavior in buying does not match their stated desires. I own a fairly small phone that is waterproof (to 1 meter), but everybody I know thinks I'm weird for having an off brand phone.
  - Crespyl 9y ago
    What the market asked for is "the new phone", which frees up the manufacturers to select whatever (lack of) features makes their lives easy, and the market has demonstrated that they will keep lining up to buy the newest and most expensive models (so long as it doesn't literally explode in their pockets).
mikestew 9y ago
Isn’t that back to the Fordian “faster horse”, though? Or perhaps that falls apart with the glued-in battery, and instead it’s “you can have a faster horse, but we have to take the legs off and install wheels”. Or maybe analogies just don’t work, and it’s “you want it thin and waterproof? We can do that, but we’re gluing the battery in.” No, customers didn’t ask for such batteries, but customers did ask for other things that require a permanently installed battery.
- pessimizer 9y ago
  > Isn’t that back to the Fordian “faster horse”, though? The Fordian "faster horse" doesn't have much merit, though. What customers wanted was a faster cart. That's also exactly what they got. What they wanted out of horses was for them to be easier to store, and cheaper and less labor intensive to maintain. They got bicycles and motorcycles.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

tabtab 9y ago

> The customer doesn't understand all the tradeoffs. Exactly! "Tuning" technology with the right features is an exercise in tradeoff-management. A better approach would be to ask customers to rank features, either against each other, and/or in general. "Driver visibility is more important to me than styling": [strongly agree][somewhat agree][not sure or mixed feelings][somewhat disagree][strongly disagree]. Of course styling is hard to judge without actually seeing what's at stake, but technical features may be easier to compare without visuals. However, doing such surveys right will require customers who are ready and willing to take longer surveys. Perhaps give a general brand gift certificate to participants. There are special ways to construct surveys to ensure responses actually reflect customer opinions (consistency checks).

PeterisP 9y ago

IMHO tradeoffs is the key word here. In all the auto examples, the customers said they liked X, but disliked Y - and then the manufactured fixed Y at some (slight, but still) cost to X, and that wasn't acceptable. The fact itself that they bought that car is an indicator that to them, X is far more valuable than Y - the "missing" feature is a nice to have thing that they'll consider as a differentiator only if the things they liked in the old car are the same or improved; they're not eager to trade off the feature because of which they bought the old car just to get the missing one.