4 ms·

Does anyone have an idea of the ROI on this? I'm thinking you'd need a massive number of 10 second to mine any meaningful number of BTC on consumer laptops.

ct0 9y ago
I wonder if sbux even knows. Im sure theyve outsourced their wifi by now...
dvdhnt 9y ago
Probably $0 after the backlash, perhaps even net negative.
diggan 9y ago
Not sure about the ROI, but I do know that Coin-Hive (which is being used in this "trick") mines Monero, not Bitcoin.
ryangittins 9y ago
Even if they did this in all Starbucks locations, I can't see it really making any money. Ten seconds on a laptop CPU rounds to zero. Coinhive has just never made any sense to me in practice. Maybe 5+ years ago, but not today. What a mismatch of effort and timing.
- mipmap04 9y ago
  Coinhive seems pretty upfront with this though (to answer "Will this work on my site?": "Technically yes, economically probably not. If you run a blog that gets 10 visits/day, the payout will be miniscule. For the captcha and shortlinks with a sensible hash goal (1024–16384) you'll need to have a whole lot of users to make this worthwhile." I do like it as an accessibility friendly captcha system, though.
- 55555 9y ago
  Coinhash mines monero and it is a business aimed towards hackers who want to monetize websites they have access to.
criddell 9y ago
I've wondered what the ROI would be for me to leave my home office computer mining bitcoin while I'm at work. I know the likelihood of me mining something is tiny, but so is the expected payout when I buy a lotto ticket. I spent about $20 / year on lotto tickets (basically whenever Powerball gets near a record jackpot). That same amount of money will keep my i5 ThinkPad running for a long time. Am I more likely to mine some Bitcoin or win the lottery?
- Jemmeh 9y ago
  I am by no means an expert, but my understanding is that a personal computer isn't energy/heat efficient enough to make a profit from mining. It costs more in energy than you would make from the bitcoin. My friends who do some mining have told me the same. You're competing with computers that are made exclusively for bitcoin and people who are heavily investing their time into it so it makes sense. It would probably be fine just for trying the system out and seeing how it works before you invest though.
  - astura 9y ago
    Jeez, you're completely missing the point. The GP was asking for a comparison the odds/cost of mining a coin with the odds/cost of winning the lottery. Not about "investing," and not about "making a profit." Basically, which form of gambling is better from a cost/rewards perspective.
    - Jemmeh 9y ago
      My understanding is you are always outspending on energy costs because of the energy inefficiency of personal computers for mining vs. a dedicated machine. So the chance of return would be more or less 0%. More like, "If I pay $5 for a lottery ticket where the max I can win is $4, what are my chances of profiting?" But again, not an expert. Just the articles I've read and people I know who mine bitcoin say you can't profit that way.
      - RandomTrees 9y ago
maltalex 9y ago
It makes no economic sense at all. Mining Bitcoin using CPUs is unprofitable. They're basically gaining cents worth of bitcoins using dollars worth of electricity. See https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/41276/in-the-asic-age-is-it-worth-starting-mining-bitcoin-at-home https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/41276/in-the-asi...
- QAPereo 9y ago
  Are they paying for that electricity?
  - eberkund 9y ago
    Sort of, I'm assuming a lot of people bring their chargers with them if they're using the WiFi at Starbucks
    - ErnestedCode 9y ago
      I suppose the cost benefit depends on whether they stay in the store charging their laptops longer because of that 10 second delay. If the customer plugs in their laptop at 1pm and plans to leave at 1:30pm, then at least they'd be making money 10 seconds longer while spending the same amount of money on electricity. If the customer leaves at 1:30:10, then they'd be paying extra for the time. But in any case, they're not paying for any extra hardware.
- freeflight 9y ago
  Another comment pointed out they are not literally mining Bitcoin but rather Monero [0], which seems to be profitable to mine on CPUs and SoC. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monero_(cryptocurrency) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monero_(cryptocurrency)
Vadoff 9y ago
Coinhive estimates that a user with a mid-range laptop would have a hashrate of 30 h/s. 10 minutes of mining = 30 * 10 * 60 = 18,000 hashes Since Coinhive pays out 0.000090 XMR per million hashes (current rate as of Dec 11. 2017), that's $0.0004250394 per user (18000/1000000 * 0.000090 * 262.37). In order to make $1, you would need 2,353 visitors with laptops mining for 10 minutes each.
- Fire1Assassin 9y ago
  I’m guessing this would work extremely well if it were set up as a honey pot at University? Tempted to test it.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]

ct0 9y ago

I wonder if sbux even knows. Im sure theyve outsourced their wifi by now...

dvdhnt 9y ago

Probably $0 after the backlash, perhaps even net negative.

diggan 9y ago

Not sure about the ROI, but I do know that Coin-Hive (which is being used in this "trick") mines Monero, not Bitcoin.

ryangittins 9y ago

Even if they did this in all Starbucks locations, I can't see it really making any money. Ten seconds on a laptop CPU rounds to zero. Coinhive has just never made any sense to me in practice. Maybe 5+ years ago, but not today. What a mismatch of effort and timing.

mipmap04 9y ago
Coinhive seems pretty upfront with this though (to answer "Will this work on my site?": "Technically yes, economically probably not. If you run a blog that gets 10 visits/day, the payout will be miniscule. For the captcha and shortlinks with a sensible hash goal (1024–16384) you'll need to have a whole lot of users to make this worthwhile." I do like it as an accessibility friendly captcha system, though.
55555 9y ago
Coinhash mines monero and it is a business aimed towards hackers who want to monetize websites they have access to.

criddell 9y ago

I've wondered what the ROI would be for me to leave my home office computer mining bitcoin while I'm at work. I know the likelihood of me mining something is tiny, but so is the expected payout when I buy a lotto ticket. I spent about $20 / year on lotto tickets (basically whenever Powerball gets near a record jackpot). That same amount of money will keep my i5 ThinkPad running for a long time. Am I more likely to mine some Bitcoin or win the lottery?

Jemmeh 9y ago
I am by no means an expert, but my understanding is that a personal computer isn't energy/heat efficient enough to make a profit from mining. It costs more in energy than you would make from the bitcoin. My friends who do some mining have told me the same. You're competing with computers that are made exclusively for bitcoin and people who are heavily investing their time into it so it makes sense. It would probably be fine just for trying the system out and seeing how it works before you invest though.
- astura 9y ago
  Jeez, you're completely missing the point. The GP was asking for a comparison the odds/cost of mining a coin with the odds/cost of winning the lottery. Not about "investing," and not about "making a profit." Basically, which form of gambling is better from a cost/rewards perspective.
  - Jemmeh 9y ago
    My understanding is you are always outspending on energy costs because of the energy inefficiency of personal computers for mining vs. a dedicated machine. So the chance of return would be more or less 0%. More like, "If I pay $5 for a lottery ticket where the max I can win is $4, what are my chances of profiting?" But again, not an expert. Just the articles I've read and people I know who mine bitcoin say you can't profit that way.
    - RandomTrees 9y ago

maltalex 9y ago

It makes no economic sense at all. Mining Bitcoin using CPUs is unprofitable. They're basically gaining cents worth of bitcoins using dollars worth of electricity. See https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/41276/in-the-asic-age-is-it-worth-starting-mining-bitcoin-at-home https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/41276/in-the-asi...

QAPereo 9y ago
Are they paying for that electricity?
- eberkund 9y ago
  Sort of, I'm assuming a lot of people bring their chargers with them if they're using the WiFi at Starbucks
  - ErnestedCode 9y ago
    I suppose the cost benefit depends on whether they stay in the store charging their laptops longer because of that 10 second delay. If the customer plugs in their laptop at 1pm and plans to leave at 1:30pm, then at least they'd be making money 10 seconds longer while spending the same amount of money on electricity. If the customer leaves at 1:30:10, then they'd be paying extra for the time. But in any case, they're not paying for any extra hardware.
freeflight 9y ago
Another comment pointed out they are not literally mining Bitcoin but rather Monero [0], which seems to be profitable to mine on CPUs and SoC. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monero_(cryptocurrency) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monero_(cryptocurrency)

Vadoff 9y ago

Coinhive estimates that a user with a mid-range laptop would have a hashrate of 30 h/s. 10 minutes of mining = 30 * 10 * 60 = 18,000 hashes Since Coinhive pays out 0.000090 XMR per million hashes (current rate as of Dec 11. 2017), that's $0.0004250394 per user (18000/1000000 * 0.000090 * 262.37). In order to make $1, you would need 2,353 visitors with laptops mining for 10 minutes each.

Fire1Assassin 9y ago
I’m guessing this would work extremely well if it were set up as a honey pot at University? Tempted to test it.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]