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Is your central thesis that poor people are poor because they don't work hard enough?

by hectorlorenzo 9y ago

rplnt 9y ago
Or the millions that work in soon-to-be-obsolete jobs should.. create different value?
- jaworrom 9y ago
  Yes. It's a sad truth, but nobody is responsible for staying ahead but yourself. Continuous improvement and self-directed learning should be emphasized in schooling, but it isn't. You're merely taught to behave and do as you are told. Why is it your fault or my fault that someone didn't pay attention to their environment and work on pivoting their career?
  - wavefunction 9y ago
    I don't think that's necessarily a truth, at least not as you've posited. A truth would be universal in my mind, and there are plenty of people in this world that succeed without every having to grow or adapt to the times. They just pay someone else to do it for them.
  - kleer001 9y ago
    You're disregarding the impact of income on the growth of children. Maybe if we had a creche system like in A Brave New World where everyone got the same start. Having poor parents and growing up in a poor neighborhood as an oppressed minority will severely hamper your ability to create value.
    - PeterisP 9y ago
      "A Brave New World" creche system was quite far from giving everyone the same start, the difference between Alphas and Deltas was induced in those creches e.g. oxygen deprivation to ensure a limited intellect to better fit the menial tasks they'll be doing all their life.
jaworrom 9y ago
Mostly, yes. Opportunity is abound for those who wish to seize it. Regardless of your background/upbringing, you hold the reigns and control your life's destination. This is what needs to be emphasized. I am one of those who did not come from means of wealth. Much like many of you, I invested my time building skills and learning so that I could get myself out of that situation.
- grasshopperpurp 9y ago
  Survivorship bias in full bloom. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e68CoE70Mk8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e68CoE70Mk8
  - jaworrom 9y ago
    Logical fallacy or not, people still have the ability to make choices the choices in life that lead to success (or failure). I'd argue that poverty is the result of complacency and contentment more so than any other factor.
  - desertrider12 9y ago
    To be fair, a lot of the UBI supporters commenting above are making similar assumptions. They think of the freedom that UBI would create for them as generally well educated, smart, creative people. In reality I'm willing to bet we would end up with Idiocracy after a generation or two, not a creative utopia.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

Is your central thesis that poor people are poor because they don't work hard enough?

rplnt 9y ago

Or the millions that work in soon-to-be-obsolete jobs should.. create different value?

jaworrom 9y ago
Yes. It's a sad truth, but nobody is responsible for staying ahead but yourself. Continuous improvement and self-directed learning should be emphasized in schooling, but it isn't. You're merely taught to behave and do as you are told. Why is it your fault or my fault that someone didn't pay attention to their environment and work on pivoting their career?
- wavefunction 9y ago
  I don't think that's necessarily a truth, at least not as you've posited. A truth would be universal in my mind, and there are plenty of people in this world that succeed without every having to grow or adapt to the times. They just pay someone else to do it for them.
- kleer001 9y ago
  You're disregarding the impact of income on the growth of children. Maybe if we had a creche system like in A Brave New World where everyone got the same start. Having poor parents and growing up in a poor neighborhood as an oppressed minority will severely hamper your ability to create value.
  - PeterisP 9y ago
    "A Brave New World" creche system was quite far from giving everyone the same start, the difference between Alphas and Deltas was induced in those creches e.g. oxygen deprivation to ensure a limited intellect to better fit the menial tasks they'll be doing all their life.

jaworrom 9y ago

Mostly, yes. Opportunity is abound for those who wish to seize it. Regardless of your background/upbringing, you hold the reigns and control your life's destination. This is what needs to be emphasized. I am one of those who did not come from means of wealth. Much like many of you, I invested my time building skills and learning so that I could get myself out of that situation.

grasshopperpurp 9y ago
Survivorship bias in full bloom. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e68CoE70Mk8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e68CoE70Mk8
- jaworrom 9y ago
  Logical fallacy or not, people still have the ability to make choices the choices in life that lead to success (or failure). I'd argue that poverty is the result of complacency and contentment more so than any other factor.
- desertrider12 9y ago
  To be fair, a lot of the UBI supporters commenting above are making similar assumptions. They think of the freedom that UBI would create for them as generally well educated, smart, creative people. In reality I'm willing to bet we would end up with Idiocracy after a generation or two, not a creative utopia.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]