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another option that is a pretty good Heroku clone is to deploy to a Deis stack. https://deis.com https://deis.com I set up a deploy on kubernetes a year ago and

by eggie5 9y ago

another option that is a pretty good Heroku clone is to deploy to a Deis stack. https://deis.com https://deis.com I set up a deploy on kubernetes a year ago and it was very close to Heroku -- impressive.

yebyen 9y ago
Yeah, Deis! I have been a big proponent of Deis even as Microsoft has acquired the team and they've gone more hands-off with the project. It's harder to make the case for Deis when there is nobody you can buy support from... (Is there anyone left that you can buy support from? I heard the easiest way to get an answer on the internet is to start by "being wrong"... secretly hoping there's still someone out there in the business of providing support to Deis) I'd also settle for someone who has continued to use Deis in production after the end-of-life date was set, and currently has no plans to move away. (I know you're out there...) I've been looking at Convox the last few days, because my team actually wants to insist on doing something with ECS. We've used Deis with our developer laptops with a middling degree of success. The best part of using Deis now IMHO is that when they ask "what are you going to do when you need support and you can't get it," ... or "what are we going to do if you leave, and nobody knows how it works?" Well there are a lot of 12-factor PaaS and hosts. Pick another one and move on. Or you can roll your own. It's not that hard, there is even a step-by-step guide (12factor.net)!
- jacques_chester 9y ago
  I think the two major platforms for PaaS into the foreseeable future are going to be OpenShift and Cloud Foundry. Both have large engineering professional organisations involved, large community footprints and a lot of sales to pay for all of the above. There is what I call the "kambrian explosion" of PaaSes being built on top of kubernetes. Most of these will, I think, shake out over the coming years and again, the heavy-duty PaaS market will largely be dominated by the two existing platforms. Disclosure: I work for Pivotal, we're the leading contributor to Cloud Foundry. Red Hat is a competitor.
  - yebyen 9y ago
    Thanks for chiming in, Jacques from Pivotal! I don't know which teams have the most meat behind them, but I know my team (or, the part of my team that deals with infrastructure and platforms, at least...) has taken a guarded approach while embracing as much as possible everything that AWS does. So while I've recommended Deis and OpenShift I've only really been able to see them start to take a serious look at Kubernetes now that Amazon says it's a thing to look at. We don't have any K8S or containers at all, except for our Jenkins server. We knew this announcement (EKS) was probably coming, so we started to look at it again weeks and months ago, and we still haven't really made any progress. The working group is formed and we're committed... to looking at it. Starting now. We haven't really even looked at either OpenShift or CloudFoundry. So I'm asking you, in the hopes that you'll give me something I can relay to my team, why do you think CloudFoundry will win? What are the major advantages of CF? Large engineering effort, community footprint, and sales are all good indicators, but from a technical perspective, why do you think we should be looking at CF? Disclosure: I work in University IT, where we have a majority of legacy projects and large databases to support, as well as incidental development efforts that we'd love to support with a platform (like the project I'm working on, a Rails app that provides a suite of workflow actions for Human Resources and Payroll to obviate their antique paper-esque forms processes)
    - jacques_chester 9y ago
      > Large engineering effort, community footprint, and sales are all good indicators, but from a technical perspective, why do you think we should be looking at CF? Broadly it's that a good platform gets everyone out of everyone's way. Cloud Foundry (these days, it's called the Application Runtime or CFAR) has made it possible for small teams of operators to support thousands of developers and applications. Similarly, it means developers can deploy rapidly, get databases and integrations on a self-serve basis, enjoy uniform platform features and so on. There's now a lot more interest in the container as the unit of deployment, which is where kubernetes has become the winning orchestrator. So there's also a Cloud Foundry Container Runtime (CFCR), which is based on kubernetes, designed to use the same low-level operator tooling, BOSH, and to integrate smoothly with the Application Runtime. Both the Application Runtime and Container Runtime are intended to run on any major IaaS; BOSH provides a uniform layer that abstracts away the raw interfaces. So you can deploy to AWS, GCP, Azure, OpenStack, vSphere, RackHD and there are others I forget. Last week we had our flagship conference, Spring One Platform, which had a parade of customers talking about how much faster they move. Months per deployment turning into deployments per day. Thousands of developers running tens of thousands of apps. I am aware of customers handling billions of requests per day and handling hundreds of millions of business events using CF. Going through black friday effortlessly without having to massively overprovision. tl;dr we build installable superpowers.

by eggie5 9y ago

yebyen 9y ago

Yeah, Deis! I have been a big proponent of Deis even as Microsoft has acquired the team and they've gone more hands-off with the project. It's harder to make the case for Deis when there is nobody you can buy support from... (Is there anyone left that you can buy support from? I heard the easiest way to get an answer on the internet is to start by "being wrong"... secretly hoping there's still someone out there in the business of providing support to Deis) I'd also settle for someone who has continued to use Deis in production after the end-of-life date was set, and currently has no plans to move away. (I know you're out there...) I've been looking at Convox the last few days, because my team actually wants to insist on doing something with ECS. We've used Deis with our developer laptops with a middling degree of success. The best part of using Deis now IMHO is that when they ask "what are you going to do when you need support and you can't get it," ... or "what are we going to do if you leave, and nobody knows how it works?" Well there are a lot of 12-factor PaaS and hosts. Pick another one and move on. Or you can roll your own. It's not that hard, there is even a step-by-step guide (12factor.net)!

jacques_chester 9y ago
I think the two major platforms for PaaS into the foreseeable future are going to be OpenShift and Cloud Foundry. Both have large engineering professional organisations involved, large community footprints and a lot of sales to pay for all of the above. There is what I call the "kambrian explosion" of PaaSes being built on top of kubernetes. Most of these will, I think, shake out over the coming years and again, the heavy-duty PaaS market will largely be dominated by the two existing platforms. Disclosure: I work for Pivotal, we're the leading contributor to Cloud Foundry. Red Hat is a competitor.
- yebyen 9y ago
  Thanks for chiming in, Jacques from Pivotal! I don't know which teams have the most meat behind them, but I know my team (or, the part of my team that deals with infrastructure and platforms, at least...) has taken a guarded approach while embracing as much as possible everything that AWS does. So while I've recommended Deis and OpenShift I've only really been able to see them start to take a serious look at Kubernetes now that Amazon says it's a thing to look at. We don't have any K8S or containers at all, except for our Jenkins server. We knew this announcement (EKS) was probably coming, so we started to look at it again weeks and months ago, and we still haven't really made any progress. The working group is formed and we're committed... to looking at it. Starting now. We haven't really even looked at either OpenShift or CloudFoundry. So I'm asking you, in the hopes that you'll give me something I can relay to my team, why do you think CloudFoundry will win? What are the major advantages of CF? Large engineering effort, community footprint, and sales are all good indicators, but from a technical perspective, why do you think we should be looking at CF? Disclosure: I work in University IT, where we have a majority of legacy projects and large databases to support, as well as incidental development efforts that we'd love to support with a platform (like the project I'm working on, a Rails app that provides a suite of workflow actions for Human Resources and Payroll to obviate their antique paper-esque forms processes)
  - jacques_chester 9y ago
    > Large engineering effort, community footprint, and sales are all good indicators, but from a technical perspective, why do you think we should be looking at CF? Broadly it's that a good platform gets everyone out of everyone's way. Cloud Foundry (these days, it's called the Application Runtime or CFAR) has made it possible for small teams of operators to support thousands of developers and applications. Similarly, it means developers can deploy rapidly, get databases and integrations on a self-serve basis, enjoy uniform platform features and so on. There's now a lot more interest in the container as the unit of deployment, which is where kubernetes has become the winning orchestrator. So there's also a Cloud Foundry Container Runtime (CFCR), which is based on kubernetes, designed to use the same low-level operator tooling, BOSH, and to integrate smoothly with the Application Runtime. Both the Application Runtime and Container Runtime are intended to run on any major IaaS; BOSH provides a uniform layer that abstracts away the raw interfaces. So you can deploy to AWS, GCP, Azure, OpenStack, vSphere, RackHD and there are others I forget. Last week we had our flagship conference, Spring One Platform, which had a parade of customers talking about how much faster they move. Months per deployment turning into deployments per day. Thousands of developers running tens of thousands of apps. I am aware of customers handling billions of requests per day and handling hundreds of millions of business events using CF. Going through black friday effortlessly without having to massively overprovision. tl;dr we build installable superpowers.