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I'm a supervisor at UPS, so maybe I can offer an opinion (this is a throwaway account). I'm not sure if there is anything analogous to the US Department Of Tra

I'm a supervisor at UPS, so maybe I can offer an opinion (this is a throwaway account). I'm not sure if there is anything analogous to the US Department Of Transportation in England, but we have to abide by pretty strict rules here in the USA regarding driving hours. A UPS driver cannot work over 14 hours on a shift, must have 10 hours between shifts, and cannot exceed 60 hours in a week without (IIRC) 38 consecutive hours before the next shift. That being said, we HIGHLY AVOID working drivers over 12 hours per shift, and try to take on a lot of extra help during the holiday peak season so that the work is distributed evenly. From what I can tell from the article, these are probably inexperienced drivers who may be on their own in regards to organizing their delivery route, sorting packages on their vehicle, and learning their route. Because UPS has a centralized management system (as apposed to FedEx, for instance, which is contract based), we monitor every driver and can send other drivers to assist anyone who begins to struggle. Its not unheard-of for UPS drivers to pee in bottles (and less often, poop in big plastic bags that are kept handy in the package cars). Its definitely not encouraged, but it happens, especially when you're on a rural route. UPS drivers have it pretty good because of the collective bargaining that's available through the union. We're definitely going to have some rough days ahead of us for the next few weeks, but peak season is a big deal that we prepare for months in advance.

bob_theslob646 9y ago
Thank you for your candid response. Would you be able to answer how many packages the average driver delivers on a route and what happens if a package is stolen i.e who is liable? Curious to see how often package theft occurs. Thanks again!
- acomjean 9y ago
  UPS I believe is self-insured (this if from many years ago a friend tried to get me to be a "seasonal helper" and I went to the orientation.) Meaning it comes out of the companies profits. Basically UPS hires a lot of extra people to ride along with the drivers and deliver pacakges during the holiday season. The pay was decent for the work.
- Declanomous 9y ago
  I'm not op, but I'm a seasonal driver, and I've delivered about 200-250 packages a day on a suburban route so far. My understanding is that the number of stops you have is directly related to the density of your route. So routes with stops that are closer together have a lot more packages. On my first day a package was stolen, and I got a stapled packet with all of the information that UPS knew about the package (when it was delivered, what location it was delivered to, where the truck was when it was marked delivered), etc. I have to go interview the person making the claim. We aren't supposed to leave any packages that are of obvious high value, such as laptops, TV's, or any Apple product. Houses with a lot of claims will be flagged and required to always sign for packages.
  - bob_theslob646 9y ago
    Interesting. Thank you for your reply. Have you heard of Amazon Key( electronic lock so that owner's door can be opened for delivery driver. [https://www.amazon.com/b?&node=17285120011] https://www.amazon.com/b?&node=17285120011]) Do you have any thoughts on that such as why Amazon would do that and if UPS would do something similar?
- asddddd 9y ago
  > how many packages the average driver delivers on a route Packages? This time of year, 300-600. Stop count: 250+. Depends on center (how many extra routes over peak to absorb volume?), local labor market, etc. > what happens if a package is stolen i.e who is liable? There are 3 ways packages get left at your doorstep: consignee release, shipper release, driver release. First is relatively rare, 2nd is common among retailers of lower value stuff. 3rd means the company is liable, so various strategies are used to mitigate the liability: don't leave high value packages (absolutely never if it's valuable enough to qualify for the chain-of-custody tracking), buildings with reported thefts get DRs prevented for a very long time, etc. Quite a bit of driver discretion is involved in judging whether to leave packages; things like leaving it hidden/under a doormat are encouraged. IIRC Apple has some special setup and will never get released without a signature. Also, business stops (which are a lot of volume) never get released without a signature. Piss bottles and lunch breaks: piss bottles are extremely common, and skipping lunches is very common since it's unpaid (at least here) and when you're scheduled for 10-12hrs it's nice to get out 30min earlier. Difference between the UPS and Amazon drivers, at least based on the article, is a huge amount of pay - top rate before O/T is $30/hr+. /teamster
lucaspiller 9y ago
In the UK these type of delivery drivers will be driving vans weighing under 3.5t. The restrictions on driving times only apply to vehicles above this weight.
- DanBC 9y ago
  In the UK drivers of vehicals with a maximum weight over 3.5 tons will be covered by EU regulations. Other drivers will be covered by the GB domestic regulations. There are maximum driving times listed in the domestic regulations. The flowchart here tells us which rules apply:https://www.gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hours-goods-vehicles/introduction https://www.gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hours-goods-vehicles/int... https://www.gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hours-goods-vehicles/2-great-britain-domestic-rules https://www.gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hours-goods-vehicles/2-g... > In any working day the maximum amount of driving permitted is 10 hours. The daily driving limit applies to driving on and off the public road. Off-road driving for the purposes of agriculture, quarrying, forestry, building work or civil engineering counts as duty rather than driving time.
mtpn 9y ago
Not to detail this too much, but can you confirm a story my boss was told last week is possible? We've had the same stuff "out for delivery" for several days to a residential address. They told my boss "well, you're near the end of the route so if the driver doesn't get to you in his 12 hours it stays on the truck overnight" ... This seems daft. And repeats for days and days. I'm trying all my January stuff with FedEx but we like UPS because of the union.
- asddddd 9y ago
  A slight oversimplification, it'll either get pulled off the truck and take a spin around the center or be looked over by someone there, but yes that's totally possible. Getting residential ground delivered "on schedule" isn't much of a priority (ground delivery guarantees are suspended for peak), although obviously that situation isn't ideal, particularly if it's more than a couple days. Basically what's happening is your local center can deliver X packages per day, with very hard limits imposed by DoT hour caps, and are dealing with X*N volume. If you need it faster, have it dropped at an access point (UPS Store) or have it held at the center.
  - mtpn 9y ago
    Thanks! And also, ugh. The line between business and residential shipping has blurred enough that this distinction, though convenient for UPS, does not reflect the reality of how many small businesses like ours run. Bummer. But thank you for the advice on access points for critical shipments.

bob_theslob646 9y ago

Thank you for your candid response. Would you be able to answer how many packages the average driver delivers on a route and what happens if a package is stolen i.e who is liable? Curious to see how often package theft occurs. Thanks again!

acomjean 9y ago
UPS I believe is self-insured (this if from many years ago a friend tried to get me to be a "seasonal helper" and I went to the orientation.) Meaning it comes out of the companies profits. Basically UPS hires a lot of extra people to ride along with the drivers and deliver pacakges during the holiday season. The pay was decent for the work.
Declanomous 9y ago
I'm not op, but I'm a seasonal driver, and I've delivered about 200-250 packages a day on a suburban route so far. My understanding is that the number of stops you have is directly related to the density of your route. So routes with stops that are closer together have a lot more packages. On my first day a package was stolen, and I got a stapled packet with all of the information that UPS knew about the package (when it was delivered, what location it was delivered to, where the truck was when it was marked delivered), etc. I have to go interview the person making the claim. We aren't supposed to leave any packages that are of obvious high value, such as laptops, TV's, or any Apple product. Houses with a lot of claims will be flagged and required to always sign for packages.
- bob_theslob646 9y ago
  Interesting. Thank you for your reply. Have you heard of Amazon Key( electronic lock so that owner's door can be opened for delivery driver. [https://www.amazon.com/b?&node=17285120011] https://www.amazon.com/b?&node=17285120011]) Do you have any thoughts on that such as why Amazon would do that and if UPS would do something similar?
asddddd 9y ago
> how many packages the average driver delivers on a route Packages? This time of year, 300-600. Stop count: 250+. Depends on center (how many extra routes over peak to absorb volume?), local labor market, etc. > what happens if a package is stolen i.e who is liable? There are 3 ways packages get left at your doorstep: consignee release, shipper release, driver release. First is relatively rare, 2nd is common among retailers of lower value stuff. 3rd means the company is liable, so various strategies are used to mitigate the liability: don't leave high value packages (absolutely never if it's valuable enough to qualify for the chain-of-custody tracking), buildings with reported thefts get DRs prevented for a very long time, etc. Quite a bit of driver discretion is involved in judging whether to leave packages; things like leaving it hidden/under a doormat are encouraged. IIRC Apple has some special setup and will never get released without a signature. Also, business stops (which are a lot of volume) never get released without a signature. Piss bottles and lunch breaks: piss bottles are extremely common, and skipping lunches is very common since it's unpaid (at least here) and when you're scheduled for 10-12hrs it's nice to get out 30min earlier. Difference between the UPS and Amazon drivers, at least based on the article, is a huge amount of pay - top rate before O/T is $30/hr+. /teamster

lucaspiller 9y ago

In the UK these type of delivery drivers will be driving vans weighing under 3.5t. The restrictions on driving times only apply to vehicles above this weight.

DanBC 9y ago
In the UK drivers of vehicals with a maximum weight over 3.5 tons will be covered by EU regulations. Other drivers will be covered by the GB domestic regulations. There are maximum driving times listed in the domestic regulations. The flowchart here tells us which rules apply:https://www.gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hours-goods-vehicles/introduction https://www.gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hours-goods-vehicles/int... https://www.gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hours-goods-vehicles/2-great-britain-domestic-rules https://www.gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hours-goods-vehicles/2-g... > In any working day the maximum amount of driving permitted is 10 hours. The daily driving limit applies to driving on and off the public road. Off-road driving for the purposes of agriculture, quarrying, forestry, building work or civil engineering counts as duty rather than driving time.

mtpn 9y ago

Not to detail this too much, but can you confirm a story my boss was told last week is possible? We've had the same stuff "out for delivery" for several days to a residential address. They told my boss "well, you're near the end of the route so if the driver doesn't get to you in his 12 hours it stays on the truck overnight" ... This seems daft. And repeats for days and days. I'm trying all my January stuff with FedEx but we like UPS because of the union.

asddddd 9y ago
A slight oversimplification, it'll either get pulled off the truck and take a spin around the center or be looked over by someone there, but yes that's totally possible. Getting residential ground delivered "on schedule" isn't much of a priority (ground delivery guarantees are suspended for peak), although obviously that situation isn't ideal, particularly if it's more than a couple days. Basically what's happening is your local center can deliver X packages per day, with very hard limits imposed by DoT hour caps, and are dealing with X*N volume. If you need it faster, have it dropped at an access point (UPS Store) or have it held at the center.
- mtpn 9y ago
  Thanks! And also, ugh. The line between business and residential shipping has blurred enough that this distinction, though convenient for UPS, does not reflect the reality of how many small businesses like ours run. Bummer. But thank you for the advice on access points for critical shipments.