4 ms·

H1B’s are mainly bad. First I get that many immigrants are actually really strong candidates more likely to do amazing things / start businesses and such, but

by Top19 9y ago

H1B’s are mainly bad. First I get that many immigrants are actually really strong candidates more likely to do amazing things / start businesses and such, but that is precisely why we should not be allowing them into the US. They are very good candidates who should be at their home country helping to build it out, start businesses, employ others, etc. I think it’s selfish of the US to even try to hire these candidates to begin with. Second, an effect of H1B visas is they tend to really prevent people from getting a start in IT. Why waste all that money as a corporation building a talent pipeline, doing training, etc. if you can just whine and complain that you can’t hire anybody followed by immediately getting more H1B’s?

hux_ 9y ago
Yup if Micheal Jordan was born in a Nigerian village that's where he should do his best work.
- ejanus 9y ago
  Dangote came from such village and he stayed behind to build and develop his country. JJ Okocha came from a village and he was a super star before heading to Europe.
- rsj_hn 9y ago
  There are other visas for superstars -- see EB-1 or "Genius Visa". This is a discussion of the H1-B program. Web developers working in React aren't really the CS equivalent of Michael Jordan.
  - TheCoelacanth 9y ago
    What about people who never get a chance to become superstars because they can't get the initial opportunities? An EB-1 visa requires "sustained national or international acclaim". Michael Jordan wouldn't have qualified for that simply based on his outstanding high school or college performance; he would have needed to get into the NBA before he could have achieved that. The EB-1 visa serves an important purpose, but we also need to be playing the numbers game with skilled young people so that we can that we can get the portion who eventually turn into superstars.
    - rsj_hn 9y ago
      Well, if you want to propose a new visa type for people who might become superstars in the future, you are welcome to do that, but if you engage with this seriously you will see that that's not really something to which there is an immigration answer. We have laws on the books; an H1-B visa isn't supposed to satisfy all of your desires for human betterment. It's a temporary worker visa for a limited quantity of higher skilled immigrants, and was only made into law on that basis. It was never supposed to ensure that "no child is left behind". I would go to whatever country you are most worried about and work on education and legal reform there, if that is your overriding concern.
      - TheCoelacanth 9y ago
        > an H1-B visa isn't supposed to satisfy all of your desires for human betterment I wasn't worrying about human betterment; I was worrying about US betterment. We are not better off by keeping future superstars out of the country. > It's a temporary worker visa for a limited quantity of higher skilled immigrants The H1-B visa is a dual-intent visa. It is not solely a temporary work visa. It is intended to bring skilled workers to the US and to sometimes get them to stay. > I would go to whatever country you are most worried about I am already in that country (the US)
        rsj_hn 9y ago
        > I wasn't worrying about human betterment; I was worrying about US betterment. We are not better off by keeping future superstars out of the country. There is already a visa for superstars, so you don't have to worry about that. There is also no caps on visas for academic and research positions, so you don't have to worry about that either. We are talking about H1-B. > The H1-B visa is a dual-intent visa. It is not solely a temporary work visa. It is intended to bring skilled workers to the US and to sometimes get them to stay. Yes, but you misunderstand the intent. The visa has two intents -- education and for profit. The education/research uses are not capped. The business uses capped. If they are a superstar, then they can get the EB visa. H1B is for middle of the road skilled workers -- eg. people slinging react code. So no need to worry about future Einsteins or superstars being blocked from entry because of H1B concerns -- that's a completely spurious argument. > I am already in that country (the US) Then you should not be worried about a shortage of skilled workers, because we have no such shortage. There is a shortage of cheap skilled workers, just as there is a shortage of cheap BMWs. Solving that "problem" is not the appropriate use of immigration policy, unless you believe the purpose of immigration is to arbitrage cross-country labor costs for shareholders of IP firms while our movies remain region coded and we push for stricter IP monopolies globally. When I can import medicine and music from the cheapest source around the world, we can then talk about doing the same for labor, otherwise you are just lowering costs for capital without also lowering them for labor, which results in shifting income from labor to capital -- something that is bad for any country.

by Top19 9y ago

hux_ 9y ago

Yup if Micheal Jordan was born in a Nigerian village that's where he should do his best work.

ejanus 9y ago
Dangote came from such village and he stayed behind to build and develop his country. JJ Okocha came from a village and he was a super star before heading to Europe.
rsj_hn 9y ago
There are other visas for superstars -- see EB-1 or "Genius Visa". This is a discussion of the H1-B program. Web developers working in React aren't really the CS equivalent of Michael Jordan.
- TheCoelacanth 9y ago
  What about people who never get a chance to become superstars because they can't get the initial opportunities? An EB-1 visa requires "sustained national or international acclaim". Michael Jordan wouldn't have qualified for that simply based on his outstanding high school or college performance; he would have needed to get into the NBA before he could have achieved that. The EB-1 visa serves an important purpose, but we also need to be playing the numbers game with skilled young people so that we can that we can get the portion who eventually turn into superstars.
  - rsj_hn 9y ago
    Well, if you want to propose a new visa type for people who might become superstars in the future, you are welcome to do that, but if you engage with this seriously you will see that that's not really something to which there is an immigration answer. We have laws on the books; an H1-B visa isn't supposed to satisfy all of your desires for human betterment. It's a temporary worker visa for a limited quantity of higher skilled immigrants, and was only made into law on that basis. It was never supposed to ensure that "no child is left behind". I would go to whatever country you are most worried about and work on education and legal reform there, if that is your overriding concern.
    - TheCoelacanth 9y ago
      > an H1-B visa isn't supposed to satisfy all of your desires for human betterment I wasn't worrying about human betterment; I was worrying about US betterment. We are not better off by keeping future superstars out of the country. > It's a temporary worker visa for a limited quantity of higher skilled immigrants The H1-B visa is a dual-intent visa. It is not solely a temporary work visa. It is intended to bring skilled workers to the US and to sometimes get them to stay. > I would go to whatever country you are most worried about I am already in that country (the US)
      - rsj_hn 9y ago
        > I wasn't worrying about human betterment; I was worrying about US betterment. We are not better off by keeping future superstars out of the country. There is already a visa for superstars, so you don't have to worry about that. There is also no caps on visas for academic and research positions, so you don't have to worry about that either. We are talking about H1-B. > The H1-B visa is a dual-intent visa. It is not solely a temporary work visa. It is intended to bring skilled workers to the US and to sometimes get them to stay. Yes, but you misunderstand the intent. The visa has two intents -- education and for profit. The education/research uses are not capped. The business uses capped. If they are a superstar, then they can get the EB visa. H1B is for middle of the road skilled workers -- eg. people slinging react code. So no need to worry about future Einsteins or superstars being blocked from entry because of H1B concerns -- that's a completely spurious argument. > I am already in that country (the US) Then you should not be worried about a shortage of skilled workers, because we have no such shortage. There is a shortage of cheap skilled workers, just as there is a shortage of cheap BMWs. Solving that "problem" is not the appropriate use of immigration policy, unless you believe the purpose of immigration is to arbitrage cross-country labor costs for shareholders of IP firms while our movies remain region coded and we push for stricter IP monopolies globally. When I can import medicine and music from the cheapest source around the world, we can then talk about doing the same for labor, otherwise you are just lowering costs for capital without also lowering them for labor, which results in shifting income from labor to capital -- something that is bad for any country.