4 ms·

Perhaps it can be viewed in the same vein as Michael Jordan's "for the love of the game" contract clause. The clause stipulated that MJ would be able to run of

by PakG1 9y ago

Perhaps it can be viewed in the same vein as Michael Jordan's "for the love of the game" contract clause. The clause stipulated that MJ would be able to run off whenever he wanted to join a pickup game, let him remember why he plays. Now, it'd be probably unreasonable for engineers to say to their manager, "hey, I'm going to take a few days off because I want to contribute to an open source project". But my point is whether they ever have a "for the love of my craft" perspective at anytime in their life. How that actually manifests in reality, good question.

Terretta 9y ago
Why is that unreasonable?
- zaptheimpaler 9y ago
  Its not unreasonable, given that some companies demand passionate rockstar unicorn engineers, yet most companies will not grant that request - they will instead exploit that passion into workaholism and leave you holding the bag when you burnout. So as engineers, we must demand equally that "passion" not be a requirement.
  - internetman55 9y ago
    Lots of companies don't actually want "rockstars". I know someone from college with incredible quantiative and programming skills. He started taking rigorous college level math classes and writing his own compression schemes in high school. He got his undergrad degree in about 2 years by getting permission to enroll in 4+ graduate computer science courses each semester instead of doing the normal curriculum. When he got hired to do boring tech work at the company I worked at, he just freaked everyone out. The questions he asked were too pointed and he would just do things correctly instead of doing what his boss said. Since he was extremely gifted and had offers to work at other (better) firms, threat of job loss didn't mean anything. All his managers basically hated him.
    - opportune 9y ago
      I know people like that, and I think I've been that person before at my first job. I would argue that someone with great quantitative and programming skills who "freaks out" their coworkers is not a rockstar. To be a rockstar developer, you have to have good enough communication skills to work within your team. A rockstar developer wouldn't ask questions of their coworkers that would embarrass them; a rockstar developer would phrase questions and concerns in a way that the other people on their team could understand. A rockstar developer wouldn't do something contrary to what their boss said, they would explain why would do something a different way before doing it (or explain why it's better). Now, if coworkers or management are too incompetent for even that, sure, even the best developer would have a bad time. Part of being a rockstar developer is, in short, knowing how to work with developers who may not be as good as you. I've been there before and while it can be tempting to use that opportunity as a way to establish hierarchy (sadly important if your company stack ranks) by asking technically challenging gotcha questions and showing off how smart you are, it creates a toxic work environment and disrupts other people's work. It's much better to help people grow and not to overwhelm them with technobabble
      - internetman55 9y ago
        "Now, if coworkers or management are too incompetent for even that, sure, even the best developer would have a bad time." I haven't worked with his team, but based on my experience with the company, it's possible that there was some of this, and people being so demoralized that they let the incompetent guy with the most standing make stupid decisions and then just do what he says. But they may not have been as bad.
    - lr4444lr 9y ago
      I admit some envy of people who find their passion early and make the most of every year of their life leading up to a career, but if he's so smart and driven, why is he working at some "boring tech" company as a cog under some layer management? Why doesn't he consult solo and reap the fruit of his precociousness?
      - 9y ago

by PakG1 9y ago

Terretta 9y ago

Why is that unreasonable?

zaptheimpaler 9y ago
Its not unreasonable, given that some companies demand passionate rockstar unicorn engineers, yet most companies will not grant that request - they will instead exploit that passion into workaholism and leave you holding the bag when you burnout. So as engineers, we must demand equally that "passion" not be a requirement.
- internetman55 9y ago
  Lots of companies don't actually want "rockstars". I know someone from college with incredible quantiative and programming skills. He started taking rigorous college level math classes and writing his own compression schemes in high school. He got his undergrad degree in about 2 years by getting permission to enroll in 4+ graduate computer science courses each semester instead of doing the normal curriculum. When he got hired to do boring tech work at the company I worked at, he just freaked everyone out. The questions he asked were too pointed and he would just do things correctly instead of doing what his boss said. Since he was extremely gifted and had offers to work at other (better) firms, threat of job loss didn't mean anything. All his managers basically hated him.
  - opportune 9y ago
    I know people like that, and I think I've been that person before at my first job. I would argue that someone with great quantitative and programming skills who "freaks out" their coworkers is not a rockstar. To be a rockstar developer, you have to have good enough communication skills to work within your team. A rockstar developer wouldn't ask questions of their coworkers that would embarrass them; a rockstar developer would phrase questions and concerns in a way that the other people on their team could understand. A rockstar developer wouldn't do something contrary to what their boss said, they would explain why would do something a different way before doing it (or explain why it's better). Now, if coworkers or management are too incompetent for even that, sure, even the best developer would have a bad time. Part of being a rockstar developer is, in short, knowing how to work with developers who may not be as good as you. I've been there before and while it can be tempting to use that opportunity as a way to establish hierarchy (sadly important if your company stack ranks) by asking technically challenging gotcha questions and showing off how smart you are, it creates a toxic work environment and disrupts other people's work. It's much better to help people grow and not to overwhelm them with technobabble
    - internetman55 9y ago
      "Now, if coworkers or management are too incompetent for even that, sure, even the best developer would have a bad time." I haven't worked with his team, but based on my experience with the company, it's possible that there was some of this, and people being so demoralized that they let the incompetent guy with the most standing make stupid decisions and then just do what he says. But they may not have been as bad.
  - lr4444lr 9y ago
    I admit some envy of people who find their passion early and make the most of every year of their life leading up to a career, but if he's so smart and driven, why is he working at some "boring tech" company as a cog under some layer management? Why doesn't he consult solo and reap the fruit of his precociousness?
    - 9y ago