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Gameplay feedback: Mohawk (helicopter) and Prowler (stealthy) don't seem worth it. The helicopter dies from a single stray rocket, random spam and attacks f

by b0rsuk 9y ago

Gameplay feedback: Mohawk (helicopter) and Prowler (stealthy) don't seem worth it. The helicopter dies from a single stray rocket, random spam and attacks from behind. Alt+arrow for strafe worked in DooM because field of view always pointed away from the player. Here, strafing is hard to get used to. Since there are already 2 keys for ability, why not make one of them "strafe left" and the other "strafe right" ? Also, because helicopter lacks a clear point, it's harder to aim. Stealthy Prowler is very slow and not especially fun to play. To the point that only effective way to play is to cloak after every rocket fired. You crawl towards a victim, then shoot at close range, then recloak. Visual notification is quite subtle, there's no sound and you end up mashing the ability key never quite sure if it already worked. So it kinda works against newbies... but sneak attacks are also effective with Goliath (the fat one) and Tornado (multifire). So I don't see the point. And here's the kicker: advanced players see it because they play (and aim!) by radar. This is an issue when fighting away from the crowd. Thoughts on upgrades: - I would appreciate a kind of "laser sight" upgrade. Each level would render a laser line in front of your plane, and the line would get longer with levels.

spydum 9y ago
while I agree about the prowler, i was holding #1 for a solid hour or two in the mohawk. It takes some strategy (mostly about orienting yourself north frequently), but it still is useful. I agree, if POV could be toggled to follow, it would be really solid. also, leveling up defense makes it suck less.
- b0rsuk 9y ago
  "orienting yourself to face north" is not a strategy, it's an interface deficiency. Yes, it would really help if viewport rotated with your aircraft !
sh4z 9y ago
To me it seems like Goliath becomes way stronger than any other ship once you have a lot of upgrades. Basically impossible to kill someone playing it safe with a max upgraded Goliath
- jsmthrowaway 9y ago
  Impossible 1-on-1, maybe. Bring friends/enemies and a Goliath goes down quick, especially if you can time your shots as the Goliath is deflecting someone else's.
  - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
    If it takes multiple attackers to reliably bring down one Goliath, that's clearly overpowered.
    - behringer 9y ago
      It doesn't. You can take it down fairly easily with the prowler. Takes about 3 shots. The prowler easily takes out Goliaths and Mohawks. It's a great unit.
- b0rsuk 9y ago
  Goliath is strong, and I haven't seen a very good player playing it (I was leading the list with it for some time). But I think a Mohawk (helicopter) player would eat it whole. Mohawk has high rate of fire so reflecting missiles isn't much use. It's also fast and its missiles are fast, so it should be like shooting a fish in the barrel. Oh, and you can strafe!
- b0rsuk 9y ago
  Upgrades are designed in such way that Goliath benefits from them more than other aircraft. Defense: +5% per upgrade. Goliath gains the most, while a Mohawk (helicopter) with 2 Defense upgrades blows up from a single Predator (default) missile. But you still need those 3 or 4 defense upgrades to survive a stray missile, or more importantly - a Prowler. Speed: extra speed is not much needed on already fast aircraft, sight distance is limited and human reaction is limited. Energy: it lets Goliath deflect and shoot more often. Others are not as energy intensive.
- jlos 9y ago
  The Tornado (3 missile) can take one out if the shots are well timed, i.e. waiting for other players to attack and it uses a number of deflects.
JepZ 9y ago
The prowler can be very useful in CTF. Nevertheless, I think it should be faster when its not cloaked ;-) Actually I think all aircrafts could use a a little bit more speed.
- pqh 9y ago
  I'd be happy with more turn speed on all aircraft. Or maybe dual-stick control. :]
claudiulodro 9y ago
Helicopter all day! That fire rate is so good! To each their own :)
- shash7 9y ago
  Ya. Just spam attach in a straight line to wipe out everyone in your path.
jsmthrowaway 9y ago
I agree on Mohawk. Mohawk would be more worth it if score degraded a little more slowly. As it exists, Mohawk is a one-way ticket to the bottom of the scoreboard because it's so difficult to stay alive. (By the way, if you're reading and didn't realize, you can select any other ship any time. The buttons look disabled but they aren't.) Prowler is awesome against the Goliath. So, so good. In fact, I'd say the Prowler is the Goliath's main counter, and when I lasted ~15min at #1 in a Goliath, it was a skilled Prowler that finally started annoying me, made me start missing my deflects, and knocked me off my balance. I was thinking the Goliath is unnecessarily OP, but the Prowler handles it. (Smart Prowler pilots: go stalk Goliaths.) Might OP the Prowler, but making it shoot a spread like the Tornado might turn the Prowler into basically an instant-backstab Rogue. Now that I've typed that, yeah, that'd be OP, don't do that. This game is heavily influenced by Subspace/Continuum, and it's fairly obvious. I could even tell which ship mapped to which fighter in this, and I appreciated how well my skill transferred. My main annoyance was that score drop. I maintained about a 5:1 KD across 500 kills and regularly flopped from #1 to #25 to #2 to #30, because the score you lose on death is a little imbalanced. A few deaths in a row and you can lose 10-15 places, which seems a little rapid. Maybe knock a little off that multiplier on death, but leave the killer's score gain alone? The only way to stay near the top is not die, which makes sense since it's called a bounty, I suppose. Still rough. Other random feedback to the author: Inferno needs a buff. That speed penalty hurts and is a pretty rapid way to die -- I noticed I was avoiding it as I played. Most of the power-ups and abilities could stand to last quite a bit longer, too. And spawners could really use a lockout on shooting for the same duration as their protective shield; you can spawn in, immediately press spacebar, and probably get a kill on a surprised person who happened to float through where you pop up with no chance to avoid. Great game, though, I didn't expect to get sucked into a browser game for three hours. I'll be playing it again. Tip I didn't realize until a long way in: 1, 2, 3, 4 map to upgrades. I was the idiot using the mouse.
- Fnoord 9y ago
  Mohawk is strong on the side, spraying continuously. If they can be flanked its game over (tho a good player can reposition). I didn't play CTF though. Prowler is not very good against Goliath because the Goliath can deflect, and its deflect ability unstealths the Prowler. Only a Goliath who has bad reflexes and goes in a straight line gets hosed. And one rocket doesn't kill the Goliath. And as soon as they know Prowler is on them, they're on their toes. Even in a FFA game a Goliath is easy to take, but only once they unloaded their energy bar or took a few hits. Other players can help with that, consciously or not. And if the Goliath has a large bounty on their head, it is in their interest to help. FFA isn't literally FFA all the time. Sometimes interests align. The bounty system aids that, and its fun. K/D ratio is the real, publicly hidden score. As a player you should avoid being near the spawn points. You learn where they are after a while. Planes always spawn facing north.
b0rsuk 9y ago
Another upgrade idea: anti-missile system. Rather than destroying, slowing or deflecting missiles, it would draw a vector in front of each missile as it gets close to you. Higher level could warn you earlier and draw more useful vectors.
3Pi 9y ago
I really enjoyed this, primarily playing as the Tornado. The main issue I had with the game was trying to get to spectator mode - it was a very short amount of time between respawns which was great, but hard to actually hit when trying. I'd suggest either or both of a hotkey to enter spectator mode, or a button to spectate after next death.
behringer 9y ago
The prowler is one of my favorites. Can take out a goliath or mohawk easily. The other units usually need assistance to destroy.
seangrogg 9y ago
I was playing Goliath last night (boop, FFA) and both of these craft do have their uses - they're actually far more worrisome to the Goliath than a Predator or Tornado. The Prowlers are great at whittling down a Goliath and otherwise being a psychological nuisance; while there is some counterplay involved a lot of it comes down to a mixture of luck and intuition. The Mowhawks are just downright nightmares over open water. They fire much faster than you can deflect, can maintain enough range to avoid the missiles you do deflect, won't die outright to one of their own missiles you've deflected, and will often outrun your missiles. In open waters they should win a 1v1 situation through overwhelming bullet hell mechanics; your best bet is to take them into mountains where you can limit their movement advantage. I do think it would be interesting if each craft had its own upgrade line, but I imagine that'd muck with being able to change frames during gameplay.

by b0rsuk 9y ago

spydum 9y ago

while I agree about the prowler, i was holding #1 for a solid hour or two in the mohawk. It takes some strategy (mostly about orienting yourself north frequently), but it still is useful. I agree, if POV could be toggled to follow, it would be really solid. also, leveling up defense makes it suck less.

b0rsuk 9y ago
"orienting yourself to face north" is not a strategy, it's an interface deficiency. Yes, it would really help if viewport rotated with your aircraft !

sh4z 9y ago

To me it seems like Goliath becomes way stronger than any other ship once you have a lot of upgrades. Basically impossible to kill someone playing it safe with a max upgraded Goliath

jsmthrowaway 9y ago
Impossible 1-on-1, maybe. Bring friends/enemies and a Goliath goes down quick, especially if you can time your shots as the Goliath is deflecting someone else's.
- PhasmaFelis 9y ago
  If it takes multiple attackers to reliably bring down one Goliath, that's clearly overpowered.
  - behringer 9y ago
    It doesn't. You can take it down fairly easily with the prowler. Takes about 3 shots. The prowler easily takes out Goliaths and Mohawks. It's a great unit.
b0rsuk 9y ago
Goliath is strong, and I haven't seen a very good player playing it (I was leading the list with it for some time). But I think a Mohawk (helicopter) player would eat it whole. Mohawk has high rate of fire so reflecting missiles isn't much use. It's also fast and its missiles are fast, so it should be like shooting a fish in the barrel. Oh, and you can strafe!
b0rsuk 9y ago
Upgrades are designed in such way that Goliath benefits from them more than other aircraft. Defense: +5% per upgrade. Goliath gains the most, while a Mohawk (helicopter) with 2 Defense upgrades blows up from a single Predator (default) missile. But you still need those 3 or 4 defense upgrades to survive a stray missile, or more importantly - a Prowler. Speed: extra speed is not much needed on already fast aircraft, sight distance is limited and human reaction is limited. Energy: it lets Goliath deflect and shoot more often. Others are not as energy intensive.
jlos 9y ago
The Tornado (3 missile) can take one out if the shots are well timed, i.e. waiting for other players to attack and it uses a number of deflects.

JepZ 9y ago

The prowler can be very useful in CTF. Nevertheless, I think it should be faster when its not cloaked ;-) Actually I think all aircrafts could use a a little bit more speed.

pqh 9y ago
I'd be happy with more turn speed on all aircraft. Or maybe dual-stick control. :]

claudiulodro 9y ago

Helicopter all day! That fire rate is so good! To each their own :)

shash7 9y ago
Ya. Just spam attach in a straight line to wipe out everyone in your path.

jsmthrowaway 9y ago

I agree on Mohawk. Mohawk would be more worth it if score degraded a little more slowly. As it exists, Mohawk is a one-way ticket to the bottom of the scoreboard because it's so difficult to stay alive. (By the way, if you're reading and didn't realize, you can select any other ship any time. The buttons look disabled but they aren't.) Prowler is awesome against the Goliath. So, so good. In fact, I'd say the Prowler is the Goliath's main counter, and when I lasted ~15min at #1 in a Goliath, it was a skilled Prowler that finally started annoying me, made me start missing my deflects, and knocked me off my balance. I was thinking the Goliath is unnecessarily OP, but the Prowler handles it. (Smart Prowler pilots: go stalk Goliaths.) Might OP the Prowler, but making it shoot a spread like the Tornado might turn the Prowler into basically an instant-backstab Rogue. Now that I've typed that, yeah, that'd be OP, don't do that. This game is heavily influenced by Subspace/Continuum, and it's fairly obvious. I could even tell which ship mapped to which fighter in this, and I appreciated how well my skill transferred. My main annoyance was that score drop. I maintained about a 5:1 KD across 500 kills and regularly flopped from #1 to #25 to #2 to #30, because the score you lose on death is a little imbalanced. A few deaths in a row and you can lose 10-15 places, which seems a little rapid. Maybe knock a little off that multiplier on death, but leave the killer's score gain alone? The only way to stay near the top is not die, which makes sense since it's called a bounty, I suppose. Still rough. Other random feedback to the author: Inferno needs a buff. That speed penalty hurts and is a pretty rapid way to die -- I noticed I was avoiding it as I played. Most of the power-ups and abilities could stand to last quite a bit longer, too. And spawners could really use a lockout on shooting for the same duration as their protective shield; you can spawn in, immediately press spacebar, and probably get a kill on a surprised person who happened to float through where you pop up with no chance to avoid. Great game, though, I didn't expect to get sucked into a browser game for three hours. I'll be playing it again. Tip I didn't realize until a long way in: 1, 2, 3, 4 map to upgrades. I was the idiot using the mouse.

Fnoord 9y ago
Mohawk is strong on the side, spraying continuously. If they can be flanked its game over (tho a good player can reposition). I didn't play CTF though. Prowler is not very good against Goliath because the Goliath can deflect, and its deflect ability unstealths the Prowler. Only a Goliath who has bad reflexes and goes in a straight line gets hosed. And one rocket doesn't kill the Goliath. And as soon as they know Prowler is on them, they're on their toes. Even in a FFA game a Goliath is easy to take, but only once they unloaded their energy bar or took a few hits. Other players can help with that, consciously or not. And if the Goliath has a large bounty on their head, it is in their interest to help. FFA isn't literally FFA all the time. Sometimes interests align. The bounty system aids that, and its fun. K/D ratio is the real, publicly hidden score. As a player you should avoid being near the spawn points. You learn where they are after a while. Planes always spawn facing north.

b0rsuk 9y ago

Another upgrade idea: anti-missile system. Rather than destroying, slowing or deflecting missiles, it would draw a vector in front of each missile as it gets close to you. Higher level could warn you earlier and draw more useful vectors.

3Pi 9y ago

I really enjoyed this, primarily playing as the Tornado. The main issue I had with the game was trying to get to spectator mode - it was a very short amount of time between respawns which was great, but hard to actually hit when trying. I'd suggest either or both of a hotkey to enter spectator mode, or a button to spectate after next death.

behringer 9y ago

The prowler is one of my favorites. Can take out a goliath or mohawk easily. The other units usually need assistance to destroy.

seangrogg 9y ago

I was playing Goliath last night (boop, FFA) and both of these craft do have their uses - they're actually far more worrisome to the Goliath than a Predator or Tornado. The Prowlers are great at whittling down a Goliath and otherwise being a psychological nuisance; while there is some counterplay involved a lot of it comes down to a mixture of luck and intuition. The Mowhawks are just downright nightmares over open water. They fire much faster than you can deflect, can maintain enough range to avoid the missiles you do deflect, won't die outright to one of their own missiles you've deflected, and will often outrun your missiles. In open waters they should win a 1v1 situation through overwhelming bullet hell mechanics; your best bet is to take them into mountains where you can limit their movement advantage. I do think it would be interesting if each craft had its own upgrade line, but I imagine that'd muck with being able to change frames during gameplay.