13 ms·

I opened this game in an incognito tab. And started dev tools. The entire game is only 2.8 MB. It loads fast. Such graphics, much small. A lesson for modern we

I opened this game in an incognito tab. And started dev tools. The entire game is only 2.8 MB. It loads fast. Such graphics, much small. A lesson for modern web developers about website obesity and performance.

subcosmos 9y ago
As an obesity geneticist, I fully approve of your invention of this term! LOL
- pvsukale3 9y ago
  Haha. This term is quite old actually. http://idlewords.com/talks/website_obesity.htm http://idlewords.com/talks/website_obesity.htm
chickenfries 9y ago
I mean this is nice but it's really not a lesson for web developers. The fact that this is 2.8mb doesn't really teach a web developer any lessons, unless you think that large website payloads exist because developers are literally too lazy or don't know how asset optimization works. Instead, having worked in web development, I know that website payload size is often driven by having to include vendored javascript for business reasons (analytics and social are big culprits) or because your boss doesn't give you the time to focus on performance because for the business, it is good enough and they want to use their limited web development resources to do something other than shrinking javascript payloads. Another thing, you're impressed by the graphics and how the developer was able to include them while keeping the payload small. It seems to be made using vectors and particle effects. Both of these techniques are not heavy in terms of payload. Shaders and particle effects are generally very small amounts of code. Think about how this is different for a website that heavily relies on all sorts of user-generated content: jpgs, mp4, gif, png, etc. Much larger assets than a few shaders and svg.
- fkld 9y ago
  Oh please STFU
  - sctb 9y ago
    Commenting like this will get your account banned, so please don't. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- rev_bird 9y ago
  >unless you think that large website payloads exist because developers are literally too lazy or don't know how asset optimization works. For what it's worth, I do think this. It's easy to just drag another JS library into your code without thinking of how long it's going to take to load.
  - chickenfries 9y ago
    I don't know what to tell you if you're convinced that's the problem. I know and work with many web developers who do care about performance. I follow the blogs of many web developers who write about performance. I don't doubt that there are junior web developers who don't know much better. But I don't really meet anyone who says that they just don't care about performance.
    - debaserab2 9y ago
      Caring about performance means weighing the decision carefully when choosing vendor libraries that fill up your payload. You can consciously care about performance but still be negligent to the things that affect it. I see competent devs reach for libraries all the time when a simple solution already exists within the language. It's easy to feel like you're doing the right thing by not reinventing the wheel. Areas I see this happening a lot in are anything dealing with file systems, HTTP request/responses, database connections, DOM/string manipulation/parsing/validation. The common theme among all these things is usually a lack of understanding of what the library/package does well enough to implement the specific use case needed.
WhitneyLand 9y ago
Yes, also the immediacy of experience. No signup, no prompts or forms, no friction. Just one click and you’re immersed in the action. When companies clutter first experience with legal disclaimers, signup offers, and every other thing, I wonder if they are always carefully balancing the competing interests of business and product design as a big picture weighing everything together. To the extent they do that’s great, but it seems sometimes its a lawyer trying to do and think only of their job, a marketing person only thinking of their job, sales only thinking about revenue, rather than globally optimized decision.
- rictic 9y ago
  And developers only thinking about the development experience. In my next project I'm going to monitor the gzipped size of my deployed site as part of continuous integration.
  - potench 9y ago
    npm bundlesize might help you: https://github.com/siddharthkp/bundlesize https://github.com/siddharthkp/bundlesize
    - kevas 9y ago
      This is what gets me... here's a dependency to reduce the size of your dependencies. I understand that it's useful, but at what point enough?
      - yoz-y 9y ago
        It is a development dependency though. So it does not get included in the final bundle at all.
grondilu 9y ago
This is the kind of gaming experience I'm hoping webassembly will bring. No installation, just visit a website and play.
- iainmerrick 9y ago
  Why do you need webassembly for that, since this game already works great right now?
  - grondilu 9y ago
    For more CPU demanding games, that is. Like AAA games.
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    So that you can write in something saner than JavaScript, for starters.
    - iainmerrick 9y ago
      You can already compile C/C++ (and I think Rust) to JavaScript via Emscripten.
      - steveklabnik 9y ago
        Yes, you can use Emscripten with Rust.
- thaumasiotes 9y ago
  Isn't that the gaming experience Flash already brought?
  - jhasse 9y ago
    You had to install Flash though.
    - 9y ago
0xcde4c3db 9y ago
Am I horribly out of touch to think that 2.8 MB seems big for this level of complexity? I'm not saying every web game needs to be a js1k, but that's roughly the size of a well-above-average SNES or Genesis game (e.g. Super Metroid or Phantasy Star IV).
- ivm 9y ago
  Yes, but that's what the world without Flash games looks like. :)
posterboy 9y ago
> 2.8MB > small > website obesity Phis is not a website, but my throttled phone connection disagrees either way. Please have a look at js1k. Or go directly to size coding, e.g. .kkrieger, which is a FSP game techdemo in 96kb, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14409210 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14409210

subcosmos 9y ago

As an obesity geneticist, I fully approve of your invention of this term! LOL

pvsukale3 9y ago
Haha. This term is quite old actually. http://idlewords.com/talks/website_obesity.htm http://idlewords.com/talks/website_obesity.htm

chickenfries 9y ago

I mean this is nice but it's really not a lesson for web developers. The fact that this is 2.8mb doesn't really teach a web developer any lessons, unless you think that large website payloads exist because developers are literally too lazy or don't know how asset optimization works. Instead, having worked in web development, I know that website payload size is often driven by having to include vendored javascript for business reasons (analytics and social are big culprits) or because your boss doesn't give you the time to focus on performance because for the business, it is good enough and they want to use their limited web development resources to do something other than shrinking javascript payloads. Another thing, you're impressed by the graphics and how the developer was able to include them while keeping the payload small. It seems to be made using vectors and particle effects. Both of these techniques are not heavy in terms of payload. Shaders and particle effects are generally very small amounts of code. Think about how this is different for a website that heavily relies on all sorts of user-generated content: jpgs, mp4, gif, png, etc. Much larger assets than a few shaders and svg.

fkld 9y ago
Oh please STFU
- sctb 9y ago
  Commenting like this will get your account banned, so please don't. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
rev_bird 9y ago
>unless you think that large website payloads exist because developers are literally too lazy or don't know how asset optimization works. For what it's worth, I do think this. It's easy to just drag another JS library into your code without thinking of how long it's going to take to load.
- chickenfries 9y ago
  I don't know what to tell you if you're convinced that's the problem. I know and work with many web developers who do care about performance. I follow the blogs of many web developers who write about performance. I don't doubt that there are junior web developers who don't know much better. But I don't really meet anyone who says that they just don't care about performance.
  - debaserab2 9y ago
    Caring about performance means weighing the decision carefully when choosing vendor libraries that fill up your payload. You can consciously care about performance but still be negligent to the things that affect it. I see competent devs reach for libraries all the time when a simple solution already exists within the language. It's easy to feel like you're doing the right thing by not reinventing the wheel. Areas I see this happening a lot in are anything dealing with file systems, HTTP request/responses, database connections, DOM/string manipulation/parsing/validation. The common theme among all these things is usually a lack of understanding of what the library/package does well enough to implement the specific use case needed.

WhitneyLand 9y ago

Yes, also the immediacy of experience. No signup, no prompts or forms, no friction. Just one click and you’re immersed in the action. When companies clutter first experience with legal disclaimers, signup offers, and every other thing, I wonder if they are always carefully balancing the competing interests of business and product design as a big picture weighing everything together. To the extent they do that’s great, but it seems sometimes its a lawyer trying to do and think only of their job, a marketing person only thinking of their job, sales only thinking about revenue, rather than globally optimized decision.

rictic 9y ago
And developers only thinking about the development experience. In my next project I'm going to monitor the gzipped size of my deployed site as part of continuous integration.
- potench 9y ago
  npm bundlesize might help you: https://github.com/siddharthkp/bundlesize https://github.com/siddharthkp/bundlesize
  - kevas 9y ago
    This is what gets me... here's a dependency to reduce the size of your dependencies. I understand that it's useful, but at what point enough?
    - yoz-y 9y ago
      It is a development dependency though. So it does not get included in the final bundle at all.

grondilu 9y ago

This is the kind of gaming experience I'm hoping webassembly will bring. No installation, just visit a website and play.

iainmerrick 9y ago
Why do you need webassembly for that, since this game already works great right now?
- grondilu 9y ago
  For more CPU demanding games, that is. Like AAA games.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  So that you can write in something saner than JavaScript, for starters.
  - iainmerrick 9y ago
    You can already compile C/C++ (and I think Rust) to JavaScript via Emscripten.
    - steveklabnik 9y ago
      Yes, you can use Emscripten with Rust.
thaumasiotes 9y ago
Isn't that the gaming experience Flash already brought?
- jhasse 9y ago
  You had to install Flash though.
  - 9y ago

0xcde4c3db 9y ago

Am I horribly out of touch to think that 2.8 MB seems big for this level of complexity? I'm not saying every web game needs to be a js1k, but that's roughly the size of a well-above-average SNES or Genesis game (e.g. Super Metroid or Phantasy Star IV).

ivm 9y ago
Yes, but that's what the world without Flash games looks like. :)

posterboy 9y ago

> 2.8MB > small > website obesity Phis is not a website, but my throttled phone connection disagrees either way. Please have a look at js1k. Or go directly to size coding, e.g. .kkrieger, which is a FSP game techdemo in 96kb, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14409210 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14409210