4 ms·

> but we can build a society where old people don't have to work long hours until the day they die Why would we? I note that my father is deteriorating faster

by ci5er 9y ago

> but we can build a society where old people don't have to work long hours until the day they die Why would we? I note that my father is deteriorating faster now that he does not work. Is it unreasonable to think that work is actually "good for us"?

scarmig 9y ago
I agree that work fosters social interactions and meaning, and older people who continue to maintain those fare a lot better than those who don't. But there's a world of difference between working because it gives you meaning, and working because if you don't you'll starve to death in your unheated apartment. No older person is benefiting from having to dig through trash for bottles to recycle for nickels.
- ci5er 9y ago
  > No older person is benefiting from having to dig through trash for bottles to recycle for nickels. Agreed. But I think we are squandering the wealth of experience that old people can bring to the work-place by essentially aging them out. They have something to offer - and we need it - and (in Japan) the safety net, it ain't so safe! EDIT: I lived in Japan a long time, but I realized (at some point), that no matter how much I payed into the retirement system, as a retiree, I would lose my visa and be kicked out (just the way it is). So I moved "back home", so that I would have the opportunity to work until I die.
  - g09980 9y ago
    > I would lose my visa and be kicked out It has been awhile since I researched this, but is becoming a permanent resident after 10 years the way to avoid that?
    - ci5er 9y ago
      I have the right to permanent residency (by marriage, by work, by children, by investment), but that's not the same as being a citizen. Which is its own thing to go through (I know people who have - but it's tough). By law (although behaviors are changing in contrary ways to the law), I am not even allowed to sign a contract. Say - movie rental. Without a sponsor - I can not (legally) rent a movie. Now, I know, practically, I can. But not legally (with the full power of the courts behind the video shop if I fail to return a VHS tape). What does that mean? It means that I can not and should not expect that the Japanese retirement system that I have spent decades paying into would necessarily consider it their obligation to fund my retirement. Is this changing? Yes, it is. Slowly. Do I want to wait for it? No - I do not. I would rather leave and become independently safe (monied) and return to Japan (because I love it) when my own ability to fund myself is in my own hands.
  - Noos 9y ago
    The wealth of experience scrubbing bathroom floors, I guess. Most of the work this article tells about, and blue collar work in general, is not self-actualizing nor really will make use of a wealth of experience as opposed to a strong back.

by ci5er 9y ago

scarmig 9y ago

I agree that work fosters social interactions and meaning, and older people who continue to maintain those fare a lot better than those who don't. But there's a world of difference between working because it gives you meaning, and working because if you don't you'll starve to death in your unheated apartment. No older person is benefiting from having to dig through trash for bottles to recycle for nickels.

ci5er 9y ago
> No older person is benefiting from having to dig through trash for bottles to recycle for nickels. Agreed. But I think we are squandering the wealth of experience that old people can bring to the work-place by essentially aging them out. They have something to offer - and we need it - and (in Japan) the safety net, it ain't so safe! EDIT: I lived in Japan a long time, but I realized (at some point), that no matter how much I payed into the retirement system, as a retiree, I would lose my visa and be kicked out (just the way it is). So I moved "back home", so that I would have the opportunity to work until I die.
- g09980 9y ago
  > I would lose my visa and be kicked out It has been awhile since I researched this, but is becoming a permanent resident after 10 years the way to avoid that?
  - ci5er 9y ago
    I have the right to permanent residency (by marriage, by work, by children, by investment), but that's not the same as being a citizen. Which is its own thing to go through (I know people who have - but it's tough). By law (although behaviors are changing in contrary ways to the law), I am not even allowed to sign a contract. Say - movie rental. Without a sponsor - I can not (legally) rent a movie. Now, I know, practically, I can. But not legally (with the full power of the courts behind the video shop if I fail to return a VHS tape). What does that mean? It means that I can not and should not expect that the Japanese retirement system that I have spent decades paying into would necessarily consider it their obligation to fund my retirement. Is this changing? Yes, it is. Slowly. Do I want to wait for it? No - I do not. I would rather leave and become independently safe (monied) and return to Japan (because I love it) when my own ability to fund myself is in my own hands.
- Noos 9y ago
  The wealth of experience scrubbing bathroom floors, I guess. Most of the work this article tells about, and blue collar work in general, is not self-actualizing nor really will make use of a wealth of experience as opposed to a strong back.