7 ms·

My LG V20 has a replaceable battery, and a head phone jack. It has the best sounding headphone jack ever available on a phone. It's a great phone and didn't sel

My LG V20 has a replaceable battery, and a head phone jack. It has the best sounding headphone jack ever available on a phone. It's a great phone and didn't sell well. The market is clear replaceable batteries and head phone jack just are not at the top of their wish list.

mschuster91 9y ago
> The market is clear replaceable batteries and head phone jack just are not at the top of their wish list. No, the problem is that Apple can do whatever the fuck they want and people still will literally rip the entire stock out of Apple Stores. The newest Macbook Pros still have 16GB RAM tops and not a single miniDP or USB connector, thus leaving people with a pile of useless junk when they upgrade (or have to replace, e.g. due to dead mobo) their older Macbooks. Not to mention the ultra ... "keyboard". People still keep buying them by the masses.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- coldtea 9y ago
  >No, the problem is that Apple can do whatever the fuck they want and people still will literally rip the entire stock out of Apple Stores. Ie. "the world is idiots and I know better" as opposed "people have different priorities". >The newest Macbook Pros still have 16GB RAM tops And for a very good reason. Low-powered (suitable for laptop use) support for 32GB memory wasn't there in Intel chipsets. But not only you didn't bother to investigate, but you know better. >and not a single miniDP or USB connector, thus leaving people with a pile of useless junk when they upgrade Or, you know, they can buy a couple of $10 USB-C cables or a $50 hub and be done with it. I prefer the move towards USB-C only faster, than them releasing yet another laptop with 5 different types of ports that will drag on the migration.
  - falcolas 9y ago
    > with 5 different types of ports No, instead you have two, with differing capabilities but the same form factor. And you have way more than 5 different cable types, each capable of different things, again, with the same form factor. I'm not yet convinced this is an improvement.
    - coldtea 9y ago
      Never had a problem with those "5 different cable types, each capable of different thing, with the same form factor". All of those can be used to do the same thing -- just with a smaller powered current, and/or slower speed. Just don't buy crappy cables: https://www.theverge.com/2016/2/4/10916264/usb-c-russian-roulette-power-cords https://www.theverge.com/2016/2/4/10916264/usb-c-russian-rou... Just buy high-end USB-C cables from a reputable vendor and you are set. As long as some product (e.g. a printer or hard drive) comes with a specific USB-C cable, use it with that, and it will be good for it. End of story.
      - daxelrod 9y ago
        Do you consider Apple a reputable vendor? Becuase https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MLL82AM/A/usb-c-charge-cable-2-m https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MLL82AM/A/usb-c-charge-ca... handles power and USB 2 only. No USB 3, no Thunderbolt, no HDMI, no DisplayPort. As far as I can tell, the advice should probably actually be "Buy high end Thunderbolt 3 cables from a reputable vendor."
        fzzzy 9y ago
        The decision by Apple to only sell a "charge cable" is one of the most baffling things to me. What on earth are they thinking?
        coldtea 9y ago
        Offering it a cheaper price for one of the most common uses where people need > 1 cables (one for home/office etc)? Or the fact that's very easy to just buy another one for data/video etc? I guess the standard could do with some color coding, but it's not like its the end of the world. Or worth it to have N different connector technologies just so we can differentiate what does what.
  - lukeschlather 9y ago
    People aren't idiots. But if you swapped Apple's high-level design choices with, say, the LG V20's high-level design choices, people would still buy the Apple phone over the LG V20. They're buying the brand, and they're making the call that having something that has Apple-level quality is better than buying a design they would prefer with inferior quality. But that doesn't preclude Apple's high-level design choices leading to objectively inferior quality (even if the objective inferiority is only to a hypothetical Apple that made better high-level design decisions.)
    - mschuster91 9y ago
      > They're buying the brand They're more buying the vendor lock-in. When I have invested 4-digit sums into Apple Music, Apple Movies and games, I can't port that all over to Android. Yes, I can port DRM-free music over, but no such luck with movies and games - there are games like Real Racing where you can sync progress across platforms but they're rare. Add in that Apple will (as evidenced in the article!) artificially slow down phones to the point of being unusable, and you have the explanation why people keep throwing money at Apple. It's like gamblers throwing more and more money into the slot machine - it's the sunk cost fallacy.
      - coldtea 9y ago
        >They're more buying the vendor lock-in. When I have invested 4-digit sums into Apple Music, Apple Movies and games, I can't port that all over to Android You very easily can, the lock-in argument is tired. For one, Apple Music exists for Android: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205365 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205365 And even if it didn't, it's a subscription service. Nobody invests much in it, except your monthly subscription. One can cancel at anytime and go to Google Play, Amazon, Spotify, etc. As for the music download (paid songs), from the major vendors it was Apple who famously spearheaded the "kill music DRM" thing, and has been offering DRM-free music for a decade or so. Which, one can easily play on Android, etc. No lock-in there either. Games? As if mobile games or even computer games are not casual and replaced by new ones every so often? Plus, with Steam et al, aren't those transferable as well? Same with movies. Who even buys those? It's the era of Netflix, subscriptions and at least renting. >there are games like Real Racing where you can sync progress across platforms but they're rare. As if that's what's holding people from moving away the Mac...
  - mschuster91 9y ago
    > Ie. "the world is idiots and I know better" as opposed "people have different priorities". The point is, people who desperately need more resources on OS X for whatever reason - be it game development, video/photo editing or even using a web browser - are stuck since years on Apple. With nothing more than Chrome, Excel, Word, Slack, iTerm and Outlook running, I have all my 16GB RAM and 15GB swap usage. I actually work (as a web dev) exclusively in the terminal on a remote server via ssh, because phpStorm, Eclipse or any other IDE on the laptop plus a server environment makes it unbearably slow. > Low-powered (suitable for laptop use) support for 32GB memory wasn't there in Intel chipsets. But not only you didn't bother to investigate, but you know better. Laptops in the Windows area have had 32GB support since over 7 years with the release of the Dell M6500 (https://www.geek.com/chips/dell-ships-a-17-precision-m6500-laptop-with-32gb-ram-1270912/ https://www.geek.com/chips/dell-ships-a-17-precision-m6500-l...). Apple has not even fucking tried supporting what their actual power users need, all in the name of "we have to build a laptop as thin as a feather". Yes, it would have eaten battery life - but why not do the same as the Windows manufacturers did and use a bigger battery? Apple could have kept selling the MacBook line as low-powered/long-battery-lifed version for those who just want to look like hipsters by having a MacBook, and the MacBook Pro line as powerhorses for the mobile work force of 2017. But no, they screwed up both user groups - the hipsters get to carry a suitcase full of ugly dongles for even the most basic tasks, and the power users watch in awe at the Windows colleagues, who have a crappy OS but a machine that can literally do work. > Or, you know, they can buy a couple of $10 USB-C cables or a $50 hub and be done with it. I'd like to be able to plug in a USB thumb drive without a dongle that I'll lose, forget or having it loaned (aka stolen) by a coworker in less than a week. Or, Apple even removed the HDMI port, right after people started building HDMI sockets in conference rooms instead of VGA which was the norm for the latest 20 years. Thanks for having to buy yet ANOTHER dongle. Oh, and a new dongle for the keyboard, another one for the mouse, a new one for wired Ethernet... and no, docking stations are not a solution, not in a "flexible office" layout with different generations of Mac and Windows hardware. The only thing that actually DID turn out well is that the power brick and the cable are now separate - but oh wait, the new cable can actually break instead of having it flap out elegantly... and because the plug is long instead of short and stubby like many Windows laptops have it, it's prone to cats trying to sit on it, and bending it in the process.
  - dahauns 9y ago
    >>The newest Macbook Pros still have 16GB RAM tops >And for a very good reason. Low-powered (suitable for laptop use) support for 32GB memory wasn't there in Intel chipsets. But not only you didn't bother to investigate, but you know better. You're actually proving his point for him. This excuse wouldn't work for anyone else but Apple. Of course normal DDR4 is perfectly fine to use in laptops (compared to lpddr3) without severely damaging your battery life, other manufacturers manage to do it just fine. And while I'd agree that ekeing out those extra standby (because there isn't even much difference in load efficiency between the two) minutes is great for the smaller devices, it becomes ridiculous when one consciously orders a device with a 45W TDP Quadcore CPU, 2TB SSD and dedicated GPU with 4GB GDDR5.
    - coldtea 9y ago
      >Of course normal DDR4 is perfectly fine to use in laptops (compared to lpddr3) without severely damaging your battery life, other manufacturers manage to do it just fine. Not according to Intel either, so the point is moot.
      - dahauns 9y ago
        Yeah, no. Just...no. (EDIT: To clarify - I call BS.)
  - manigandham 9y ago
    People have different priorities, but most people are also not smart or rational.
- baldfat 9y ago
  > No, the problem is that Apple can do whatever the f* they want Industrial wide problem based on consumers voting with their money. Samsung and the rest of Android is also following the same thing. No replaceable battery and no head phone jack.

mschuster91 9y ago

> The market is clear replaceable batteries and head phone jack just are not at the top of their wish list. No, the problem is that Apple can do whatever the fuck they want and people still will literally rip the entire stock out of Apple Stores. The newest Macbook Pros still have 16GB RAM tops and not a single miniDP or USB connector, thus leaving people with a pile of useless junk when they upgrade (or have to replace, e.g. due to dead mobo) their older Macbooks. Not to mention the ultra ... "keyboard". People still keep buying them by the masses.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
coldtea 9y ago
>No, the problem is that Apple can do whatever the fuck they want and people still will literally rip the entire stock out of Apple Stores. Ie. "the world is idiots and I know better" as opposed "people have different priorities". >The newest Macbook Pros still have 16GB RAM tops And for a very good reason. Low-powered (suitable for laptop use) support for 32GB memory wasn't there in Intel chipsets. But not only you didn't bother to investigate, but you know better. >and not a single miniDP or USB connector, thus leaving people with a pile of useless junk when they upgrade Or, you know, they can buy a couple of $10 USB-C cables or a $50 hub and be done with it. I prefer the move towards USB-C only faster, than them releasing yet another laptop with 5 different types of ports that will drag on the migration.
- falcolas 9y ago
  > with 5 different types of ports No, instead you have two, with differing capabilities but the same form factor. And you have way more than 5 different cable types, each capable of different things, again, with the same form factor. I'm not yet convinced this is an improvement.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    Never had a problem with those "5 different cable types, each capable of different thing, with the same form factor". All of those can be used to do the same thing -- just with a smaller powered current, and/or slower speed. Just don't buy crappy cables: https://www.theverge.com/2016/2/4/10916264/usb-c-russian-roulette-power-cords https://www.theverge.com/2016/2/4/10916264/usb-c-russian-rou... Just buy high-end USB-C cables from a reputable vendor and you are set. As long as some product (e.g. a printer or hard drive) comes with a specific USB-C cable, use it with that, and it will be good for it. End of story.
    - daxelrod 9y ago
      Do you consider Apple a reputable vendor? Becuase https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MLL82AM/A/usb-c-charge-cable-2-m https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MLL82AM/A/usb-c-charge-ca... handles power and USB 2 only. No USB 3, no Thunderbolt, no HDMI, no DisplayPort. As far as I can tell, the advice should probably actually be "Buy high end Thunderbolt 3 cables from a reputable vendor."
      - fzzzy 9y ago
        The decision by Apple to only sell a "charge cable" is one of the most baffling things to me. What on earth are they thinking?
        coldtea 9y ago
        Offering it a cheaper price for one of the most common uses where people need > 1 cables (one for home/office etc)? Or the fact that's very easy to just buy another one for data/video etc? I guess the standard could do with some color coding, but it's not like its the end of the world. Or worth it to have N different connector technologies just so we can differentiate what does what.
- lukeschlather 9y ago
  People aren't idiots. But if you swapped Apple's high-level design choices with, say, the LG V20's high-level design choices, people would still buy the Apple phone over the LG V20. They're buying the brand, and they're making the call that having something that has Apple-level quality is better than buying a design they would prefer with inferior quality. But that doesn't preclude Apple's high-level design choices leading to objectively inferior quality (even if the objective inferiority is only to a hypothetical Apple that made better high-level design decisions.)
  - mschuster91 9y ago
    > They're buying the brand They're more buying the vendor lock-in. When I have invested 4-digit sums into Apple Music, Apple Movies and games, I can't port that all over to Android. Yes, I can port DRM-free music over, but no such luck with movies and games - there are games like Real Racing where you can sync progress across platforms but they're rare. Add in that Apple will (as evidenced in the article!) artificially slow down phones to the point of being unusable, and you have the explanation why people keep throwing money at Apple. It's like gamblers throwing more and more money into the slot machine - it's the sunk cost fallacy.
    - coldtea 9y ago
      >They're more buying the vendor lock-in. When I have invested 4-digit sums into Apple Music, Apple Movies and games, I can't port that all over to Android You very easily can, the lock-in argument is tired. For one, Apple Music exists for Android: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205365 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205365 And even if it didn't, it's a subscription service. Nobody invests much in it, except your monthly subscription. One can cancel at anytime and go to Google Play, Amazon, Spotify, etc. As for the music download (paid songs), from the major vendors it was Apple who famously spearheaded the "kill music DRM" thing, and has been offering DRM-free music for a decade or so. Which, one can easily play on Android, etc. No lock-in there either. Games? As if mobile games or even computer games are not casual and replaced by new ones every so often? Plus, with Steam et al, aren't those transferable as well? Same with movies. Who even buys those? It's the era of Netflix, subscriptions and at least renting. >there are games like Real Racing where you can sync progress across platforms but they're rare. As if that's what's holding people from moving away the Mac...
- mschuster91 9y ago
  > Ie. "the world is idiots and I know better" as opposed "people have different priorities". The point is, people who desperately need more resources on OS X for whatever reason - be it game development, video/photo editing or even using a web browser - are stuck since years on Apple. With nothing more than Chrome, Excel, Word, Slack, iTerm and Outlook running, I have all my 16GB RAM and 15GB swap usage. I actually work (as a web dev) exclusively in the terminal on a remote server via ssh, because phpStorm, Eclipse or any other IDE on the laptop plus a server environment makes it unbearably slow. > Low-powered (suitable for laptop use) support for 32GB memory wasn't there in Intel chipsets. But not only you didn't bother to investigate, but you know better. Laptops in the Windows area have had 32GB support since over 7 years with the release of the Dell M6500 (https://www.geek.com/chips/dell-ships-a-17-precision-m6500-laptop-with-32gb-ram-1270912/ https://www.geek.com/chips/dell-ships-a-17-precision-m6500-l...). Apple has not even fucking tried supporting what their actual power users need, all in the name of "we have to build a laptop as thin as a feather". Yes, it would have eaten battery life - but why not do the same as the Windows manufacturers did and use a bigger battery? Apple could have kept selling the MacBook line as low-powered/long-battery-lifed version for those who just want to look like hipsters by having a MacBook, and the MacBook Pro line as powerhorses for the mobile work force of 2017. But no, they screwed up both user groups - the hipsters get to carry a suitcase full of ugly dongles for even the most basic tasks, and the power users watch in awe at the Windows colleagues, who have a crappy OS but a machine that can literally do work. > Or, you know, they can buy a couple of $10 USB-C cables or a $50 hub and be done with it. I'd like to be able to plug in a USB thumb drive without a dongle that I'll lose, forget or having it loaned (aka stolen) by a coworker in less than a week. Or, Apple even removed the HDMI port, right after people started building HDMI sockets in conference rooms instead of VGA which was the norm for the latest 20 years. Thanks for having to buy yet ANOTHER dongle. Oh, and a new dongle for the keyboard, another one for the mouse, a new one for wired Ethernet... and no, docking stations are not a solution, not in a "flexible office" layout with different generations of Mac and Windows hardware. The only thing that actually DID turn out well is that the power brick and the cable are now separate - but oh wait, the new cable can actually break instead of having it flap out elegantly... and because the plug is long instead of short and stubby like many Windows laptops have it, it's prone to cats trying to sit on it, and bending it in the process.
- dahauns 9y ago
  >>The newest Macbook Pros still have 16GB RAM tops >And for a very good reason. Low-powered (suitable for laptop use) support for 32GB memory wasn't there in Intel chipsets. But not only you didn't bother to investigate, but you know better. You're actually proving his point for him. This excuse wouldn't work for anyone else but Apple. Of course normal DDR4 is perfectly fine to use in laptops (compared to lpddr3) without severely damaging your battery life, other manufacturers manage to do it just fine. And while I'd agree that ekeing out those extra standby (because there isn't even much difference in load efficiency between the two) minutes is great for the smaller devices, it becomes ridiculous when one consciously orders a device with a 45W TDP Quadcore CPU, 2TB SSD and dedicated GPU with 4GB GDDR5.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    >Of course normal DDR4 is perfectly fine to use in laptops (compared to lpddr3) without severely damaging your battery life, other manufacturers manage to do it just fine. Not according to Intel either, so the point is moot.
    - dahauns 9y ago
      Yeah, no. Just...no. (EDIT: To clarify - I call BS.)
- manigandham 9y ago
  People have different priorities, but most people are also not smart or rational.
baldfat 9y ago
> No, the problem is that Apple can do whatever the f* they want Industrial wide problem based on consumers voting with their money. Samsung and the rest of Android is also following the same thing. No replaceable battery and no head phone jack.