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Decent audio -- far more important than video. Your rapport goes up 10x. You can not just discuss but also talk over the top of each other in the way that is n

by zbuf 9y ago

Decent audio -- far more important than video. Your rapport goes up 10x. You can not just discuss but also talk over the top of each other in the way that is naturally part of conversation; and even argue. We develop a system originally for broadcasters and audio engineers to transfer live audio: http://cleanfeed.net/ http://cleanfeed.net/ It's a niche but interestingly more and more developers seem to be using it for audio quality -- and of course, we use it to develop it. Whereas regular conferencing systems don't give good performance as they are focused either on video, or trying to process bad audio into good. With proper hardware and software you can eliminates the stop-start feeling in conversations.

chrismorgan 9y ago
Cleanfeed looked interesting until it got to “Chrome only”.¹ I’m curious: is there anything actually Chrome-specific in it at present, or is it just about focus? (A mistake, in my opinion, unless it’s depending on something only available in Chrome at present, but I acknowledge the validity of the argument.) --- ¹ OK, so it still looks interesting, I’m just turned off by that as a long-time Firefox user—and most of the people I work with are Firefox users also.
- itake 9y ago
  Maybe related, but Google hangouts relies on plugins that are not present in other browsers as a result, you can only use Chrome[0] (or download a 3rd party plugin for Safari). [0] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/google-hangouts-temporarily-wont-work-on-firefox https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/google-hangouts-tempora...
- zbuf 9y ago
  It's both. When we started Firefox didn't have the level of functionality that we needed; it wasn't even possible to capture stereo audio, for example. Even today we're reliant on Chrome functionality that either isn't in the standards, or is undocumented. That has been changing over time, and periodically we go through the codebase and re-align it with what's going on in Firefox or the standards as best as possible. You may even find you can close the warning and try and use it anyway. I'm also a long term Firefox user, and a proponent of a multi-browser world (I only started using Chrome to develop and use Cleanfeed!) Cleanfeed began as a tool used to produce live radio; focusing on Chrome is a practical way to keep the bug footprint lower. That's important when things like the audio handling can be 'within spec' but just not performing very well. Things get more interesting with the peer-to-peer nature too, everything blows up in possibilities when you start trying to get Chrome to peer with Firefox and so on -- not just supporting each browser version, but combinations of them. So I think we're justified as we sit on the bleeding edge a little, but also try and keep an eye on browser developments too, especially important if Cleanfeed finds uses in other areas. I'm happy when I hear people do care about Firefox (and other browsers) so the right thing is to let us know.
  - chrismorgan 9y ago
    Yeah, the audio input world isn’t at all great on the web. Nor is the output world, for that matter. I wish Mozilla’s Audio Data API had won, it’s so much more sensible as a foundation than the Web Audio API.
codingdave 9y ago
I agree that good audio is important, but we never had software problems... we just got everyone high quality headsets, and then the standard conferencing, skype or hangouts worked just fine for us. The only exceptions were people with poor internet connections at their home. I'd invest more into hardware and network than anything else.
- steamer25 9y ago
  Using the opus codec (as Cleanfeed does) could potentially help with limited bandwidth scenarios: https://opus-codec.org/comparison/ https://opus-codec.org/comparison/
AdamGibbins 9y ago
"Cleanfeed" for me instantly triggers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleanfeed_(content_blocking_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleanfeed_(content_blocking_sy...

by zbuf 9y ago

chrismorgan 9y ago

Cleanfeed looked interesting until it got to “Chrome only”.¹ I’m curious: is there anything actually Chrome-specific in it at present, or is it just about focus? (A mistake, in my opinion, unless it’s depending on something only available in Chrome at present, but I acknowledge the validity of the argument.) --- ¹ OK, so it still looks interesting, I’m just turned off by that as a long-time Firefox user—and most of the people I work with are Firefox users also.

itake 9y ago
Maybe related, but Google hangouts relies on plugins that are not present in other browsers as a result, you can only use Chrome[0] (or download a 3rd party plugin for Safari). [0] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/google-hangouts-temporarily-wont-work-on-firefox https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/google-hangouts-tempora...
zbuf 9y ago
It's both. When we started Firefox didn't have the level of functionality that we needed; it wasn't even possible to capture stereo audio, for example. Even today we're reliant on Chrome functionality that either isn't in the standards, or is undocumented. That has been changing over time, and periodically we go through the codebase and re-align it with what's going on in Firefox or the standards as best as possible. You may even find you can close the warning and try and use it anyway. I'm also a long term Firefox user, and a proponent of a multi-browser world (I only started using Chrome to develop and use Cleanfeed!) Cleanfeed began as a tool used to produce live radio; focusing on Chrome is a practical way to keep the bug footprint lower. That's important when things like the audio handling can be 'within spec' but just not performing very well. Things get more interesting with the peer-to-peer nature too, everything blows up in possibilities when you start trying to get Chrome to peer with Firefox and so on -- not just supporting each browser version, but combinations of them. So I think we're justified as we sit on the bleeding edge a little, but also try and keep an eye on browser developments too, especially important if Cleanfeed finds uses in other areas. I'm happy when I hear people do care about Firefox (and other browsers) so the right thing is to let us know.
- chrismorgan 9y ago
  Yeah, the audio input world isn’t at all great on the web. Nor is the output world, for that matter. I wish Mozilla’s Audio Data API had won, it’s so much more sensible as a foundation than the Web Audio API.

codingdave 9y ago

I agree that good audio is important, but we never had software problems... we just got everyone high quality headsets, and then the standard conferencing, skype or hangouts worked just fine for us. The only exceptions were people with poor internet connections at their home. I'd invest more into hardware and network than anything else.

steamer25 9y ago
Using the opus codec (as Cleanfeed does) could potentially help with limited bandwidth scenarios: https://opus-codec.org/comparison/ https://opus-codec.org/comparison/

AdamGibbins 9y ago

"Cleanfeed" for me instantly triggers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleanfeed_(content_blocking_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleanfeed_(content_blocking_sy...