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> ... Recycling itself is a good idea ... milk and soda came in reusable bottles, other products like instant coffee, creamer, ovaltine, and others also came in

> ... Recycling itself is a good idea ... milk and soda came in reusable bottles, other products like instant coffee, creamer, ovaltine, and others also came in glass instead of plastic - yes, reuse does cost the manufacturer more ... As you say at the end of my quote, that's reuse, not recycling. Plus you're really only talking about using glass bottles instead of plastic bottles. None of that means that "Recycling itself is a good idea".

Aloha 9y ago
Arguably, Glass, and Metal are easier to recycle - but more energy intensive to do so - its much easier to sort glass and metal than the 9000 kinda of plastic. I'd argue that reuse and recycling are in many cases, functionally semantics.
- ars 9y ago
  There's no reason to recycle glass. The planet is made of it. Almost every rock you see around you can be melted into glass. And it's completely harmless if thrown out. At most crush it first. The only thing worth recycling is metal.
  - throwaway5752 9y ago
    This is dated but really interesting: https://www.nrel.gov/docs/legosti/old/5703.pdf https://www.nrel.gov/docs/legosti/old/5703.pdf It's worthwhile to recycle glass.
    - yorwba 9y ago
      First paragraph of the conclusion section: Recycling of glass containers saves some energy, but not a signifcant quantity compared to reuse. The primary energy saved is about 2.2 x 10^6 Btu/ton, or 13% of the energy required to make glass containers from virgin raw materials. This estimate includes energy required for the entire product life cycle, starting with raw materials in the ground and ending with either final waste disposition in a landfill or recycled materal collection, processing, and return to the primary manufacturing process. The actual savings depend on local factors, including population density; locations of landfills, recovery facilities, and glass plants; and process efficiencies at the specifc facilities available. The savings increase if wastes must be transported long distances to a landfill or if the containers are made in an inefficient furnace. They decrease if there is no local MRF or glass plant, or if material losses in the recycling loop are high. If the MRF is as much as 100 mi away, savings from recycling are negated.
      - muninn_ 9y ago
        The key phrase is “compared to reuse” - of course it’s better to reuse things be recycle - what case is there where that wouldn’t be true?
      - throwaway5752 9y ago
        Sure! It's the 2nd best choice. Reuse as much as possible. What can't be reused, recycle. But it's significantly better to recycle it than throw it in the garbage for almost everyone.
    - cdolan 9y ago
      Glass is made of sand and oil. Sand is apparently in shorter (not short) supply. Oil isn’t. I think it’s a different world than the 1994 article you link to
      - throwaway5752 9y ago
        I know, I read the whole thing. Glass is also made of limestone, fyi. 1) Oil was less expensive, inflation-adjusted, in 1994 than it is today ($30/bbl) 2) Only very specific sand is in short supply today (construction and fracking sand, neither of which is fungible with arbitrary sand) 3) Glass is made of natural gas.
  - adrianN 9y ago
    Melting rocks into glass takes a lot more energy than melting scrap glass into glass. The ratio is not as good as for aluminium or other metals, but it's still worthwhile afaik.
    - ars 9y ago
      But transporting heavy glass, sorting it, and everything else makes the ratio for recycling much much worse. As evidence: In general no one actually remelts recycled glass. Recycled glass is crushed and spread on top of landfills each night to prevent rodents from being active, and to reduce dust and pollution. That's still considered "recycled". And this is after transporting and sorting! And yet they still don't bother remelting it.
      - WalterBright 9y ago
        I read once that adding crushed glass to concrete prevents rats from gnawing through it.
        njarboe 9y ago
        Rats can gnaw through standard concrete? No wonder they ended up everywhere on Earth. I would love to see some video of rats chewing holes through concrete walls. A quick search on youtube did not turn up any live rats chewing concrete.
        WalterBright 9y ago
        I found the reference: "Seal holes in foundations of buildings or entrances to rat burrows with a minimum of 2 in. (5 cm) of reinforced mortar mixed with iron filings (from machine shops) or broken glass pieces 1/8 in. to 1/2 in. (0.3 cm to 1.3 cm) long. (You can put some glass in a tough paper bag and smash it with a hammer. Shake out the broken glass pieces into the mortar as you are mixingi t.) The glass or the filings deters rats from digging the filled holes out again before the mortar hardens." "Common Sense Pest Control" by Olkowski pg. 633

Aloha 9y ago

Arguably, Glass, and Metal are easier to recycle - but more energy intensive to do so - its much easier to sort glass and metal than the 9000 kinda of plastic. I'd argue that reuse and recycling are in many cases, functionally semantics.

ars 9y ago
There's no reason to recycle glass. The planet is made of it. Almost every rock you see around you can be melted into glass. And it's completely harmless if thrown out. At most crush it first. The only thing worth recycling is metal.
- throwaway5752 9y ago
  This is dated but really interesting: https://www.nrel.gov/docs/legosti/old/5703.pdf https://www.nrel.gov/docs/legosti/old/5703.pdf It's worthwhile to recycle glass.
  - yorwba 9y ago
    First paragraph of the conclusion section: Recycling of glass containers saves some energy, but not a signifcant quantity compared to reuse. The primary energy saved is about 2.2 x 10^6 Btu/ton, or 13% of the energy required to make glass containers from virgin raw materials. This estimate includes energy required for the entire product life cycle, starting with raw materials in the ground and ending with either final waste disposition in a landfill or recycled materal collection, processing, and return to the primary manufacturing process. The actual savings depend on local factors, including population density; locations of landfills, recovery facilities, and glass plants; and process efficiencies at the specifc facilities available. The savings increase if wastes must be transported long distances to a landfill or if the containers are made in an inefficient furnace. They decrease if there is no local MRF or glass plant, or if material losses in the recycling loop are high. If the MRF is as much as 100 mi away, savings from recycling are negated.
    - muninn_ 9y ago
      The key phrase is “compared to reuse” - of course it’s better to reuse things be recycle - what case is there where that wouldn’t be true?
    - throwaway5752 9y ago
      Sure! It's the 2nd best choice. Reuse as much as possible. What can't be reused, recycle. But it's significantly better to recycle it than throw it in the garbage for almost everyone.
  - cdolan 9y ago
    Glass is made of sand and oil. Sand is apparently in shorter (not short) supply. Oil isn’t. I think it’s a different world than the 1994 article you link to
    - throwaway5752 9y ago
      I know, I read the whole thing. Glass is also made of limestone, fyi. 1) Oil was less expensive, inflation-adjusted, in 1994 than it is today ($30/bbl) 2) Only very specific sand is in short supply today (construction and fracking sand, neither of which is fungible with arbitrary sand) 3) Glass is made of natural gas.
- adrianN 9y ago
  Melting rocks into glass takes a lot more energy than melting scrap glass into glass. The ratio is not as good as for aluminium or other metals, but it's still worthwhile afaik.
  - ars 9y ago
    But transporting heavy glass, sorting it, and everything else makes the ratio for recycling much much worse. As evidence: In general no one actually remelts recycled glass. Recycled glass is crushed and spread on top of landfills each night to prevent rodents from being active, and to reduce dust and pollution. That's still considered "recycled". And this is after transporting and sorting! And yet they still don't bother remelting it.
    - WalterBright 9y ago
      I read once that adding crushed glass to concrete prevents rats from gnawing through it.
      - njarboe 9y ago
        Rats can gnaw through standard concrete? No wonder they ended up everywhere on Earth. I would love to see some video of rats chewing holes through concrete walls. A quick search on youtube did not turn up any live rats chewing concrete.
        WalterBright 9y ago
        I found the reference: "Seal holes in foundations of buildings or entrances to rat burrows with a minimum of 2 in. (5 cm) of reinforced mortar mixed with iron filings (from machine shops) or broken glass pieces 1/8 in. to 1/2 in. (0.3 cm to 1.3 cm) long. (You can put some glass in a tough paper bag and smash it with a hammer. Shake out the broken glass pieces into the mortar as you are mixingi t.) The glass or the filings deters rats from digging the filled holes out again before the mortar hardens." "Common Sense Pest Control" by Olkowski pg. 633