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While I agree on your overall point that you should be using your mind for something productive rather than showing off, I have to note that getting degrees has

by croon 9y ago

While I agree on your overall point that you should be using your mind for something productive rather than showing off, I have to note that getting degrees has nothing (edit: very little) to do with IQ. IQ might help you understand a subject better, but being focused, studying, planning, and having the motivation is what gets you degrees.

DoreenMichele 9y ago
I am medically handicapped and was also suicidal throughout high school. I had better test scores in high school than grades. I missed a lot of school and often failed to do homework. In most cases, past grades are a better predictor of future grades than test scores. But college was physically easier for me because I had more control over my schedule and was thus better able to accommodate my handicap. So my grades went up substantially, more in line with my high test scores. My health issues have long been a barrier to achievement. So this always gives me pause when trying to judge ability of other people. Maybe their poor performance says more about racism, sexism, an abusive childhood etc etc than it does about supposed innate ability. Maybe their good performance says more about getting social support, being born into the right family, etc than it says about innate ability. But I will note that the comment you replied to said nothing about IQ. I only spoke of a need for validation and that's it. I was quite careful to not suggest it had anything to do with intelligence or competence. I have spent quite a lot of my life failing to have a real career, failing to get taken seriously and failing to make much in the way of money. So there are ways in which I hunger for validation, yet Mensa does not appeal to me. I see it as mostly massaging one's ego and I would rather find actual solutions to my problems instead. Getting a serious career and adequate income etc will take my pain away. Validation from Mensa would be sort of like a painkiller, not a means to heal what ails my psyche. I am not interested in remaining a loser but getting adorned with some sort of phony crown implying that I am totes not a loser, really. Instead, I want to stop losing at life, even if no one else notices.
- LV-426 9y ago
  > But I will note that the comment you replied to said nothing about IQ. I only spoke of a need for validation and that's it. I was quite careful to not suggest it had anything to do with intelligence or competence. What did you mean by "smarts", if not "intelligence", "competence" or "IQ"?
  - DoreenMichele 9y ago
    "The king's stamp does not make the gold good." An organization declaring you to be one of the smart people may feel good, but it doesn't make it true. And it is generally more useful if the people stamping off on the idea that you are smart are issuing a degree in the process.
  - LV-426 9y ago
    Downvoted for asking someone a question/clarification? WTF.
orangecat 9y ago
I have to note that getting degrees has nothing (edit: very little) to do with IQ. That's just not true, even with the edit. Certainly high intelligence by itself isn't sufficient, but you're not going to find many physics PhDs with a 90 IQ.
- brailsafe 9y ago
  I think it's worth considering though how much of that is pure problem solving ability, and how much is enthusiasm. I'd wager that the majority of academic programs could be successfully completed as long as long-lasting enthusiasm and time management are in place. Also worth considering is just how many factors can lead to a negative outcome. I'd bet that physics PHDs get there with persistence, enthusiasm, and money. Intelligence barriers may not stand in there way but I don't think they're the determining factor.
  - hyperpallium 9y ago
    Yes. You need human-level intelligence. The rest is personality characteristics (like slogging away for years), circumstances etc. But this could be said for all intellectual achievement. I would go further, and say there are no geniuses, only acts of genius. Perhaps one person "could have done" it quicker than another... but the important achievement is that someone actually did do it.
- llamaz 9y ago
  Maybe, but you could easily get through medical school where rote memorisation, hard work, and diligence are more important. (In my country one pathway to medicine is a 6 year undergraduate degree you do straight out of highschool.) I'm doing a double degree in elec engg and math, but I'm stupid as fuck and likely not going anywhere in life. (not being "falsely modest", I'm really struggling through my degree) edit: I guess I should mentioned that I'm very close to finishing my degrees
- gaastonsr 9y ago
  I think the point stands. You don’t need a high IQ, just an average one.

by croon 9y ago

DoreenMichele 9y ago

I am medically handicapped and was also suicidal throughout high school. I had better test scores in high school than grades. I missed a lot of school and often failed to do homework. In most cases, past grades are a better predictor of future grades than test scores. But college was physically easier for me because I had more control over my schedule and was thus better able to accommodate my handicap. So my grades went up substantially, more in line with my high test scores. My health issues have long been a barrier to achievement. So this always gives me pause when trying to judge ability of other people. Maybe their poor performance says more about racism, sexism, an abusive childhood etc etc than it does about supposed innate ability. Maybe their good performance says more about getting social support, being born into the right family, etc than it says about innate ability. But I will note that the comment you replied to said nothing about IQ. I only spoke of a need for validation and that's it. I was quite careful to not suggest it had anything to do with intelligence or competence. I have spent quite a lot of my life failing to have a real career, failing to get taken seriously and failing to make much in the way of money. So there are ways in which I hunger for validation, yet Mensa does not appeal to me. I see it as mostly massaging one's ego and I would rather find actual solutions to my problems instead. Getting a serious career and adequate income etc will take my pain away. Validation from Mensa would be sort of like a painkiller, not a means to heal what ails my psyche. I am not interested in remaining a loser but getting adorned with some sort of phony crown implying that I am totes not a loser, really. Instead, I want to stop losing at life, even if no one else notices.

LV-426 9y ago
> But I will note that the comment you replied to said nothing about IQ. I only spoke of a need for validation and that's it. I was quite careful to not suggest it had anything to do with intelligence or competence. What did you mean by "smarts", if not "intelligence", "competence" or "IQ"?
- DoreenMichele 9y ago
  "The king's stamp does not make the gold good." An organization declaring you to be one of the smart people may feel good, but it doesn't make it true. And it is generally more useful if the people stamping off on the idea that you are smart are issuing a degree in the process.
- LV-426 9y ago
  Downvoted for asking someone a question/clarification? WTF.

orangecat 9y ago

I have to note that getting degrees has nothing (edit: very little) to do with IQ. That's just not true, even with the edit. Certainly high intelligence by itself isn't sufficient, but you're not going to find many physics PhDs with a 90 IQ.

brailsafe 9y ago
I think it's worth considering though how much of that is pure problem solving ability, and how much is enthusiasm. I'd wager that the majority of academic programs could be successfully completed as long as long-lasting enthusiasm and time management are in place. Also worth considering is just how many factors can lead to a negative outcome. I'd bet that physics PHDs get there with persistence, enthusiasm, and money. Intelligence barriers may not stand in there way but I don't think they're the determining factor.
- hyperpallium 9y ago
  Yes. You need human-level intelligence. The rest is personality characteristics (like slogging away for years), circumstances etc. But this could be said for all intellectual achievement. I would go further, and say there are no geniuses, only acts of genius. Perhaps one person "could have done" it quicker than another... but the important achievement is that someone actually did do it.
llamaz 9y ago
Maybe, but you could easily get through medical school where rote memorisation, hard work, and diligence are more important. (In my country one pathway to medicine is a 6 year undergraduate degree you do straight out of highschool.) I'm doing a double degree in elec engg and math, but I'm stupid as fuck and likely not going anywhere in life. (not being "falsely modest", I'm really struggling through my degree) edit: I guess I should mentioned that I'm very close to finishing my degrees
gaastonsr 9y ago
I think the point stands. You don’t need a high IQ, just an average one.