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> You did not even bother to ask Katz herself and instead relied on a news wire! Uh. Because the press relies on news wires all the time? While standard practi

> You did not even bother to ask Katz herself and instead relied on a news wire! Uh. Because the press relies on news wires all the time? While standard practice, I am not claiming that news wires are infallible. Mistakes can happen. But the difference between traditional journalists and Facebook bloggers is that traditional journalists are held to a standard in factual reporting. You might notice that the first Rappler article you linked to [1] is subheaded by an update which conveys a message different to the headline: (6th UPDATE) The Philippine National Police says the 'isolated' incident is not a terrorist act but Defense Chief Lorenzana tells Rappler, "We're not ruling out that this is ISIS." In contrast, bloggers (like RJ Nieto in the Senate hearing regarding fake news) would often just hide behind the excuse "I am entitled to my opinion". Sure, no one contests that you are entitled to your own opinion. But never peddle your opinion as fact. > Previous administration promised Freedom of Information (FOI) but only Pres. Duterte implemented it. I don't think this wins points for Duterte. The FOI came relatively late into the last administration's term. The previous administration basically did the bulk of the legislative footwork necessary to pass a bill. Almost all that's left for Duterte to do is to sign the bill. Had the FOI been raised a few legislative seasons earlier, it might as well be Aquino who signed it into implementation. Carry over projects are common when administrations transition. > Here's the FOI online portal (Browse over 2662 requests and 217 government agencies). I think a better measure of FOI's efficacy are the actual statistics. [2] The graph isn't completely clear but it would seem that, as of this writing, there are 797 denied requests (278 labeled as "Denied requests" and 519 merely labeled "Denied"). Compared to 820 successful requests, that means it is roughly 50-50 on whether your FOI request will be granted. So much for "freedom" there. Granted, some of the denied requests were unfulfilled allegedly since the office from which the data was requested did not have said data. While a believable response, I find it frustrating that our government could not cross-check with other agencies when reasonable. But that is as much freedom as you can get from bureaucracy, I guess. [1] https://www.rappler.com/nation/171702-isis-resorts-world-manila-casino-attack https://www.rappler.com/nation/171702-isis-resorts-world-man... [2] https://www.foi.gov.ph/statistics?type=outcomes https://www.foi.gov.ph/statistics?type=outcomes

mjohnre 9y ago
> (6th UPDATE) Initially, they reported without verification that ISIS was responsible. Isn't that fearmongering? Does that not qualify as fake news? > traditional journalists are held to a standard in factual reporting Who checks them? They're not infallible just like the bloggers. Don't get me wrong, I'm for free speech and not for censorship. What seems to be happening now is that "journalists" label bloggers in Facebook as trolls to silence them and still label Pres. Duterte as dictator. Who's the dictator in that case? > bloggers (like RJ Nieto in the Senate hearing regarding fake news) would often just hide behind the excuse "I am entitled to my opinion" The same RJ Nieto who is one of the people to be the first to raise the issue about Dengvaxia, an unproven vaccine against Dengue administered by the previous administration to about 700,000 children. Dengvaxia is reported to worsen the condition for those who do not have a previous case of Dengue. I think RJ Nieto peddles his opinion quite well to make people accountable. Why do "journalists" label him as troll? Is it because he does not conform to their narrative? > The previous administration basically did the bulk of the legislative footwork necessary to pass a bill. Almost all that's left for Duterte to do is to sign the bill. Pres. Duterte issued an executive order. Please don't try to frame it as if he is credit grabbing. Even so, why didn't the previous administration just signed and implemented it? By making it as a priority when Pres. Duterte took office, I think he deserves a kudos. > But that is as much freedom as you can get from bureaucracy, I guess. Yeah, the government must improve.
- skytreader 9y ago
  > Initially, they reported without verification that ISIS was responsible. Because that's what came from the news wire, which as I pointed out is standard practice for professional journalists. News wires work under the assumption that the origin of the story (AFP in this case), have verified the story themselves. In case a mistake happens (as it sometimes does, as it seemingly did here), reporting outlets issue erratum. > Who checks them? They're not infallible just like the bloggers. You can check them yourself. One of the hallmarks of proper journalism is citing your references and, in cases where your references request anonymity, publish _other_ references which would either corroborate or rebut your other reference. It is this nuance that makes journalism "professional", a trait which these bloggers sorely lack: Mocha Uson, when asked whether she even tried _at least once_ to ask for an account from the other side (Bam Aquino in this case) invokes her right to "self-discrimi...err...incrimination". Oldest way to cop-out in the book. > ...and still label Pres. Duterte as dictator. Who's the dictator in that case? Assuming without conceding that traditional media is wrong in labeling these bloggers as trolls, the difference between them and Duterte is that Duterte is in a position of power to actively act against these journalists. On the other hand, all journalism can do is make their case (in a _professional_ manner) and let the public/other offices of government decide. By themselves, they cannot act against bloggers, let alone the government. > The same RJ Nieto who is one of the people to be the first to raise the issue about Dengvaxia... As you can tell, I don't waste my time following Nieto. Aware as I am on the issue of Dengvaxia, I'd withhold judgement on whether Nieto did this in a proper and professional manner. However, assuming without conceding that this act from Nieto is praiseworthy, this does not change the fact that in most other instances, Nieto fails in basic journalistic rigor, bordering if not crossing over to acts of trolling. Examples: [1] [2] > I think RJ Nieto peddles his opinion quite well to make people accountable. Again, you _do not_ peddle opinion to hold people accountable; you hold them accountable with cold, hard, verifiable facts. How can you demand accountability based on opinions from people which, as you yourself concedes, are not infallible? Double whammy there. > Please don't try to frame it as if he is credit grabbing. I'm not saying Duterte is credit grabbing but that people are giving him more credit than he is due. There's a difference there. > Even so, why didn't the previous administration just signed and implemented it? Because even in legislation, there's a due process that must be followed and the previous administration followed it. Even if for a bill like FOI which I fully support, I will be critical of Aquino had he dubiously manipulated the legislative process just so he could claim the FOI under his belt. [1] http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2017/10/04/1745517/blogger-slammed-false-claims-vs-photojournalist http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2017/10/04/1745517/blogger... [2] http://www.mindanews.com/statements/2017/11/statement-nujp-on-thinking-pinoys-threat-against-female-journalist/ http://www.mindanews.com/statements/2017/11/statement-nujp-o...

mjohnre 9y ago

> (6th UPDATE) Initially, they reported without verification that ISIS was responsible. Isn't that fearmongering? Does that not qualify as fake news? > traditional journalists are held to a standard in factual reporting Who checks them? They're not infallible just like the bloggers. Don't get me wrong, I'm for free speech and not for censorship. What seems to be happening now is that "journalists" label bloggers in Facebook as trolls to silence them and still label Pres. Duterte as dictator. Who's the dictator in that case? > bloggers (like RJ Nieto in the Senate hearing regarding fake news) would often just hide behind the excuse "I am entitled to my opinion" The same RJ Nieto who is one of the people to be the first to raise the issue about Dengvaxia, an unproven vaccine against Dengue administered by the previous administration to about 700,000 children. Dengvaxia is reported to worsen the condition for those who do not have a previous case of Dengue. I think RJ Nieto peddles his opinion quite well to make people accountable. Why do "journalists" label him as troll? Is it because he does not conform to their narrative? > The previous administration basically did the bulk of the legislative footwork necessary to pass a bill. Almost all that's left for Duterte to do is to sign the bill. Pres. Duterte issued an executive order. Please don't try to frame it as if he is credit grabbing. Even so, why didn't the previous administration just signed and implemented it? By making it as a priority when Pres. Duterte took office, I think he deserves a kudos. > But that is as much freedom as you can get from bureaucracy, I guess. Yeah, the government must improve.

skytreader 9y ago
> Initially, they reported without verification that ISIS was responsible. Because that's what came from the news wire, which as I pointed out is standard practice for professional journalists. News wires work under the assumption that the origin of the story (AFP in this case), have verified the story themselves. In case a mistake happens (as it sometimes does, as it seemingly did here), reporting outlets issue erratum. > Who checks them? They're not infallible just like the bloggers. You can check them yourself. One of the hallmarks of proper journalism is citing your references and, in cases where your references request anonymity, publish _other_ references which would either corroborate or rebut your other reference. It is this nuance that makes journalism "professional", a trait which these bloggers sorely lack: Mocha Uson, when asked whether she even tried _at least once_ to ask for an account from the other side (Bam Aquino in this case) invokes her right to "self-discrimi...err...incrimination". Oldest way to cop-out in the book. > ...and still label Pres. Duterte as dictator. Who's the dictator in that case? Assuming without conceding that traditional media is wrong in labeling these bloggers as trolls, the difference between them and Duterte is that Duterte is in a position of power to actively act against these journalists. On the other hand, all journalism can do is make their case (in a _professional_ manner) and let the public/other offices of government decide. By themselves, they cannot act against bloggers, let alone the government. > The same RJ Nieto who is one of the people to be the first to raise the issue about Dengvaxia... As you can tell, I don't waste my time following Nieto. Aware as I am on the issue of Dengvaxia, I'd withhold judgement on whether Nieto did this in a proper and professional manner. However, assuming without conceding that this act from Nieto is praiseworthy, this does not change the fact that in most other instances, Nieto fails in basic journalistic rigor, bordering if not crossing over to acts of trolling. Examples: [1] [2] > I think RJ Nieto peddles his opinion quite well to make people accountable. Again, you _do not_ peddle opinion to hold people accountable; you hold them accountable with cold, hard, verifiable facts. How can you demand accountability based on opinions from people which, as you yourself concedes, are not infallible? Double whammy there. > Please don't try to frame it as if he is credit grabbing. I'm not saying Duterte is credit grabbing but that people are giving him more credit than he is due. There's a difference there. > Even so, why didn't the previous administration just signed and implemented it? Because even in legislation, there's a due process that must be followed and the previous administration followed it. Even if for a bill like FOI which I fully support, I will be critical of Aquino had he dubiously manipulated the legislative process just so he could claim the FOI under his belt. [1] http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2017/10/04/1745517/blogger-slammed-false-claims-vs-photojournalist http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2017/10/04/1745517/blogger... [2] http://www.mindanews.com/statements/2017/11/statement-nujp-on-thinking-pinoys-threat-against-female-journalist/ http://www.mindanews.com/statements/2017/11/statement-nujp-o...