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https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/57886-all-great-literature-is-one-of-two-stories-a-man https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/57886-all-great-literature-... You wan

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/57886-all-great-literature-is-one-of-two-stories-a-man https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/57886-all-great-literature-... You wanna argue with Tolstoy? I might refer you to TVtropes. All stories are the same eventually.

pvg 9y ago
Oh, it's a URL battle now. Sure, I'll take it. https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/05/06/two-plots/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/05/06/two-plots/
- tzs 9y ago
  "Boy meets girl; girl gets boy into pickle; boy gets pickle into girl" --Jack Woodford on plotting.
  - pvg 9y ago
    This has a couple of advantages over the made-up Tolstoy thing: - Jack Woodford might have actually said it - It works (sort of) for Anna Karenina
    - jimmywanger 9y ago
      https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/57886-all-great-literature-is-one-of-two-stories-a-man https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/57886-all-great-literature-... Who's making stuff up?
      - pvg 9y ago
        There just isn't any evidence Tolstoy ever said or wrote that. Nor would it make sense for someone who wrote Anna Karenina. You should read the link in my last reply. And/or Anna Karenina.
    - tzs 9y ago
      Upon further investigation, it looks like Woodford repeated it rather than originated it. Also, he was applying it to Hollywood movie plots, and later TV plots. In Woodford's autobiography he attributes it to H. Allen Smith: https://books.google.com/books?id=AckQU9DPMnwC&pg=PT299&dq=Jack+Woodford+pickle&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwicod2Brv7XAhUU72MKHf9nCs4Q6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=Jack%20Woodford%20pickle&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=AckQU9DPMnwC&pg=PT299&dq=J...
      - pvg 9y ago
        I think that entire category of quotes is handily won by Pat Conroy: "My mother, southern to the bone, once told me, "All southern literature can be summed up in these words: 'On the night the hogs ate Willie, Mama died when she heard what Daddy did to Sister.'" And it's easy to attribute! http://www.patconroy.com/articles_aba-85.php http://www.patconroy.com/articles_aba-85.php
        jimmywanger 9y ago
        The best canonical song (at least about country music). This is David Allan Coe. Well, I was drunk the day my mom got out of prison And I went to pick her up in the rain But before I could get to the station in my pickup truck She got runned over by a damned old train
        pvg 9y ago
        I'm guessing this is far as you're going to acknowledge 'Tolstoy never said a thing Tolstoy would have never said but I claimed he did and thought was a decisive forum killshot'. :)
        jimmywanger 9y ago
        No, I'm just saying (back to the original point) you should castigate somebody by misinterpreting the words. That is sloppy reasoning, and it bothers me. (As it should you)
periphrasis 9y ago
> It's a story about a man trying to get home, and a woman staying faithful in the face of uncertainty. Anything else is reading too much into it. Of the 24 books of the Odyssey, Odysseus' famous seafaring wanderings account for just 4. Likewise, the narrative focuses on Odysseus in 20 out of the 24 books, and he is at home, on Ithaca, for 12 of them. Clearly, Odysseus trying to get home is not the main point of the story, however memorable some of his nautical adventures are. If you ask me, the poem is about barbarism versus civilization, revenge versus justice, family, and the nature of heroism.
SAI_Peregrinus 9y ago
Counterexample: Waiting for Godot. Also Macbeth. And Romeo and Juliet. And all the many, many other stories not about journeys.
trgv 9y ago
I agree with you, more or less. I don't think the Odyssey is a complicated story. But that doesn't have anything to do with this article though, which I rather liked. > You wanna argue with Tolstoy? Tolstoy famously described Shakespeare as "insignificant" and didn't understand what all the fuss was about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lear,_Tolstoy_and_the_Fool https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lear,_Tolstoy_and_the_Fool
- pvg 9y ago
  Tolstoy also never said the thing quoted in that goodreads page. So it's not an argument with Tolstoy to begin with.

pvg 9y ago

Oh, it's a URL battle now. Sure, I'll take it. https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/05/06/two-plots/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/05/06/two-plots/

tzs 9y ago
"Boy meets girl; girl gets boy into pickle; boy gets pickle into girl" --Jack Woodford on plotting.
- pvg 9y ago
  This has a couple of advantages over the made-up Tolstoy thing: - Jack Woodford might have actually said it - It works (sort of) for Anna Karenina
  - jimmywanger 9y ago
    https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/57886-all-great-literature-is-one-of-two-stories-a-man https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/57886-all-great-literature-... Who's making stuff up?
    - pvg 9y ago
      There just isn't any evidence Tolstoy ever said or wrote that. Nor would it make sense for someone who wrote Anna Karenina. You should read the link in my last reply. And/or Anna Karenina.
  - tzs 9y ago
    Upon further investigation, it looks like Woodford repeated it rather than originated it. Also, he was applying it to Hollywood movie plots, and later TV plots. In Woodford's autobiography he attributes it to H. Allen Smith: https://books.google.com/books?id=AckQU9DPMnwC&pg=PT299&dq=Jack+Woodford+pickle&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwicod2Brv7XAhUU72MKHf9nCs4Q6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=Jack%20Woodford%20pickle&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=AckQU9DPMnwC&pg=PT299&dq=J...
    - pvg 9y ago
      I think that entire category of quotes is handily won by Pat Conroy: "My mother, southern to the bone, once told me, "All southern literature can be summed up in these words: 'On the night the hogs ate Willie, Mama died when she heard what Daddy did to Sister.'" And it's easy to attribute! http://www.patconroy.com/articles_aba-85.php http://www.patconroy.com/articles_aba-85.php
      - jimmywanger 9y ago
        The best canonical song (at least about country music). This is David Allan Coe. Well, I was drunk the day my mom got out of prison And I went to pick her up in the rain But before I could get to the station in my pickup truck She got runned over by a damned old train
        pvg 9y ago
        I'm guessing this is far as you're going to acknowledge 'Tolstoy never said a thing Tolstoy would have never said but I claimed he did and thought was a decisive forum killshot'. :)
        jimmywanger 9y ago
        No, I'm just saying (back to the original point) you should castigate somebody by misinterpreting the words. That is sloppy reasoning, and it bothers me. (As it should you)

periphrasis 9y ago

> It's a story about a man trying to get home, and a woman staying faithful in the face of uncertainty. Anything else is reading too much into it. Of the 24 books of the Odyssey, Odysseus' famous seafaring wanderings account for just 4. Likewise, the narrative focuses on Odysseus in 20 out of the 24 books, and he is at home, on Ithaca, for 12 of them. Clearly, Odysseus trying to get home is not the main point of the story, however memorable some of his nautical adventures are. If you ask me, the poem is about barbarism versus civilization, revenge versus justice, family, and the nature of heroism.

SAI_Peregrinus 9y ago

Counterexample: Waiting for Godot. Also Macbeth. And Romeo and Juliet. And all the many, many other stories not about journeys.

trgv 9y ago

I agree with you, more or less. I don't think the Odyssey is a complicated story. But that doesn't have anything to do with this article though, which I rather liked. > You wanna argue with Tolstoy? Tolstoy famously described Shakespeare as "insignificant" and didn't understand what all the fuss was about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lear,_Tolstoy_and_the_Fool https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lear,_Tolstoy_and_the_Fool

pvg 9y ago
Tolstoy also never said the thing quoted in that goodreads page. So it's not an argument with Tolstoy to begin with.