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Yea, no. Lightning network still depends on the bitcoin network. All it means is any two parties can transact off chain and settle up later. Not sure what th

Yea, no. Lightning network still depends on the bitcoin network. All it means is any two parties can transact off chain and settle up later. Not sure what the problem is.

lawn 9y ago
That the Bitcoin network is being crippled in favor of these solutions.
- etr-strike 9y ago
  You’re upset the core devs didn’t let Bitcoin become a centralized coin? If you refuse to acknowledge the benefit of SegWit or the other scaling solutions then I can’t help you. Big blockers have their Jihan and Roger coin now. Stop trying to steal the bitcoin brand. If there was consensus for big blocks then Bitcoin would have activated. Jihan and Roger couldn’t convince the educated people that their proposals would work. Now they’re throwing a tantrum.
  - lawn 9y ago
    Sigh. Increasing the block size to 2MB nor 8MB for that matter will not make a centralized coin. Segwit (besides being a crappy implementation) is by far not enough scaling. That you blame Jihan and Roger is typical stupid propaganda which doesn't belong here.
    - etr-strike 9y ago
      According to actual research here: http://www.tik.ee.ethz.ch/file/49318d3f56c1d525aabf7fda78b23fc0/P2P2013_041.pdf http://www.tik.ee.ethz.ch/file/49318d3f56c1d525aabf7fda78b23... Each additional kb results in an additional 80ms of delay until the majority learns about a block. Increasing to 8mb means you’re adding a 9min delay in propagation. That is pretty much guaranteed centralization. Perhaps you have some research you can point me to that demonstrates otherwise?
      - lawn 9y ago
        Which does not take into account xthin/compact blocks which cuts down propagation time a lot. In the future graphene will further reduce the time necessary. How you can conclude a 9min propagation delay for 8MB blocks is beyond me as miners are basically directly connected to each other. This is the only thing that matters decentralization wise. Bitcoin Unlimited are successfully testing 1GB blocks: https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-unlimited-reveals-gigablock-testnet-performance/ https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-unlimited-reveals-gigablock...
        etr-strike 9y ago
        Your link is a news article and not actual research. The details of their specific test are barely provided. Please provide actual research as I have provided you.
        CryptoPunk 9y ago
        This overcautious, "let's test everything for 10 years before trying it" approach is exactly what Bitcoin doesn't need when it has 0.001% of world transaction throughput.
        Rmilb 9y ago
        Bitcoin is the conservative approach to any change that decreases the keystone of decentralization that allows it to survive. The market is deciding what it values.
        CryptoPunk 9y ago
        The market is reacting to the fact that Bitcoin is in the public consciousness, and that is a result of years of advocacy done for Bitcoin, when its advocates (e.g. Roger Ver, Coinbase, PayPal, and all of the other signatories of the SegWit2x agreement) still believed that it would scale with large blocks and thousands of transactions on-chain per second.
      - 9y ago

Yea, no. Lightning network still depends on the bitcoin network. All it means is any two parties can transact off chain and settle up later. Not sure what the problem is.

lawn 9y ago

That the Bitcoin network is being crippled in favor of these solutions.

etr-strike 9y ago
You’re upset the core devs didn’t let Bitcoin become a centralized coin? If you refuse to acknowledge the benefit of SegWit or the other scaling solutions then I can’t help you. Big blockers have their Jihan and Roger coin now. Stop trying to steal the bitcoin brand. If there was consensus for big blocks then Bitcoin would have activated. Jihan and Roger couldn’t convince the educated people that their proposals would work. Now they’re throwing a tantrum.
- lawn 9y ago
  Sigh. Increasing the block size to 2MB nor 8MB for that matter will not make a centralized coin. Segwit (besides being a crappy implementation) is by far not enough scaling. That you blame Jihan and Roger is typical stupid propaganda which doesn't belong here.
  - etr-strike 9y ago
    According to actual research here: http://www.tik.ee.ethz.ch/file/49318d3f56c1d525aabf7fda78b23fc0/P2P2013_041.pdf http://www.tik.ee.ethz.ch/file/49318d3f56c1d525aabf7fda78b23... Each additional kb results in an additional 80ms of delay until the majority learns about a block. Increasing to 8mb means you’re adding a 9min delay in propagation. That is pretty much guaranteed centralization. Perhaps you have some research you can point me to that demonstrates otherwise?
    - lawn 9y ago
      Which does not take into account xthin/compact blocks which cuts down propagation time a lot. In the future graphene will further reduce the time necessary. How you can conclude a 9min propagation delay for 8MB blocks is beyond me as miners are basically directly connected to each other. This is the only thing that matters decentralization wise. Bitcoin Unlimited are successfully testing 1GB blocks: https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-unlimited-reveals-gigablock-testnet-performance/ https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-unlimited-reveals-gigablock...
      - etr-strike 9y ago
        Your link is a news article and not actual research. The details of their specific test are barely provided. Please provide actual research as I have provided you.
        CryptoPunk 9y ago
        This overcautious, "let's test everything for 10 years before trying it" approach is exactly what Bitcoin doesn't need when it has 0.001% of world transaction throughput.
        Rmilb 9y ago
        Bitcoin is the conservative approach to any change that decreases the keystone of decentralization that allows it to survive. The market is deciding what it values.
        CryptoPunk 9y ago
        The market is reacting to the fact that Bitcoin is in the public consciousness, and that is a result of years of advocacy done for Bitcoin, when its advocates (e.g. Roger Ver, Coinbase, PayPal, and all of the other signatories of the SegWit2x agreement) still believed that it would scale with large blocks and thousands of transactions on-chain per second.
    - 9y ago