4 ms·

Dude, It literally stopped accepting transactions. After 72 hours your transaction is dropped. Without further notice. Until then you must guess if it was pr

Dude, It literally stopped accepting transactions. After 72 hours your transaction is dropped. Without further notice. Until then you must guess if it was processed or not.

natch 9y ago
Citation needed.
- Bombthecat 9y ago
  https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/43155/do-unconfirmed-transactions-expire-after-some-time/43165#43165 https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/43155/do-unconfi...
scotty79 9y ago
If you give a recommended fee it can go as fast as ever.
- Bombthecat 9y ago
  True that, at times 10$
- pmorici 9y ago
  This is such a silly comment. This is like saying that you have a Bus with 20 seats and 40 people that want to ride. Your advice isn't get a bigger bus it is get to the bus stop earlier. It doesn't matter how early everyone gets there in the end there are only 20 seats.
  - scotty79 9y ago
    You are right although I don't fully understand your analogy but bitcoin never guaranteed all transactions will go through because it couldn't because noone could make a system with infinite capacity. 20$ transaction fee is an incentive for the users to restrain themselves to smaller number of larger transfers. Is the limit too strict? Probably. Miners still get a lot from mining rewards and don't need to be incentivised with fees yet, but there must be some limit that will force people pay for transactions because when mining rewards end there will be nothing to keep miners mining.
    - freeone3000 9y ago
      Visa manages to make all of its transactions go through. Mastercard doesn't seem to run into scaling problems. Paypal can transfer money at pretty much any time. Why is bitcoin exempt as a transaction layer?
      - scotty79 9y ago
        I don't know how many times I couldn't pay with my Visa because system is down or slow today or transaction gets rejected for whatever reason. I believe there's a subset of whole Visa thing that always works, does what it supposed to do and processes everything it supposed to (while cashing in few percents on each purchase) but it is far from perfect from the point of view of the user. The real difference is that visa has percentage fees on volume and bitcoin has fees dependent on number of transactions want to do at the moment. It's sensible since to avoid trusting single party bitcoin nodes all keep all thansactions that ever happened. Incentivising people to limit their number is a good thing for bitcoin network. But thanks to that bitcoin won't ever be Visa 2.0 For me bitcoin for payments should work similarily to how prepaid phones work. You land in another country, you buy a card from local provider, you charge it with bitcoins and you usr it to shop. I think bitpay is already doing something like that.
    - jpamata 9y ago
      > 20$ transaction fee is an incentive for the users to restrain themselves to smaller number of larger transfers. In my country (the Philippines) everyone is buying from high school kids to office workers. The current minimum transaction fee is around $40. To exchange your bitcoin to Philippine Peso (PHP), the fixed conversion fee is 5%. If those don't seem a lot, get this: 83% of Filipinos earn below $400 a month. Most of whom I know are HODLing their bitcoin because it's too expensive to move their money. They would rather wait for their investment to reap huge gains before they cash out. Bitcoin here is branded as a "get rich quick" investment scheme, and that's understandable, bitcoin doesn't have a valuable use case here. You can't buy anything here with bitcoin.
      - scotty79 9y ago
  - endlessvoid94 9y ago
    OP saying that it was designed that way. We can disagree about whether or not the intended design is practical or not, but it's "technically" successful because it's operating exactly as it was designed.
always_good 9y ago
Well, that's not accurate either. Miners sort transactions by fee and fill up a 1MB block. Use https://estimatefee.com/ https://estimatefee.com/. Not paying enough to win the fee auction is not the same as no transactions getting through at all. You seem a bit misinformed to be using the "Dude" prologue.
- Bombthecat 9y ago
  https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/43155/do-unconfirmed-transactions-expire-after-some-time/43165#43165 https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/43155/do-unconfi... K thx bay
  - hhbbhhg 9y ago
    What is it with bitcoins that attracts Reddit-dwelling idiots?
- Beejeepa 9y ago
  The market doesn't function when people can't transact freely. Price signals get distorted. When the blockchain is frozen, we don't know the actual supply and demand of Bitcoin. Bitcoin Cash fixes Bitcoin by providing a capacity market, where transactions can cost whatever nodes / miners can compete at.
- theWatcher37 9y ago
  Incorrect. The fact is the network lacked the capacity to handle the requested number of transactions, and in turn auctioned off the tickets to the lifeboat to whoever paid the most. You’re arguing “nobody died in the titanic that didn’t pay enough”, when the problem is clearly there aren’t enough lifeboats.
  - gruez 9y ago
    why are you equating space on a global ledger with space on a lifeboat?
    - 9y ago
moduspol 9y ago
Dropping low-fee unconfirmed transactions is not the same as not accepting transactions.
- pmorici 9y ago
  What is low fee to you? Because there are people paying several bucks to do a transaction right now that are being dropped.
  - moduspol 9y ago
    Sorry—-I meant low relative to the other pending transactions. They’re not low at all relative to other payment methods.
    - theWatcher37 9y ago
      This is certifiable.
      - Spivak 9y ago
        I mean from an end user perspective maybe but it's always been an auction where you can buy yourself priority. Nothing has really changed except now there are more people bidding higher.
        pmorici 9y ago
        The thing that has changed is that the supply has been artificially limited where as before there was ample supply.
grubles 9y ago
Child pays for parent. Use it. https://themerkle.com/what-is-child-pay-for-parent/ https://themerkle.com/what-is-child-pay-for-parent/
- owenversteeg 9y ago
  TL;DR you perform a new transaction that depends on the prior, unconfirmed transaction. To do this you have to pay double fees for the new transaction to make it attractive to miners to confirm both.
gruez 9y ago
not really. by default, bitcoin core rebroadcasts your uncofirmed transactions periodically (not sure about the other clients). so as long as your client is open once every 72 hours, it won't disappear from the mempool. whether it gets confirmed is another story.

Dude, It literally stopped accepting transactions. After 72 hours your transaction is dropped. Without further notice. Until then you must guess if it was processed or not.

natch 9y ago

Citation needed.

Bombthecat 9y ago
https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/43155/do-unconfirmed-transactions-expire-after-some-time/43165#43165 https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/43155/do-unconfi...

scotty79 9y ago

If you give a recommended fee it can go as fast as ever.

Bombthecat 9y ago
True that, at times 10$
pmorici 9y ago
This is such a silly comment. This is like saying that you have a Bus with 20 seats and 40 people that want to ride. Your advice isn't get a bigger bus it is get to the bus stop earlier. It doesn't matter how early everyone gets there in the end there are only 20 seats.
- scotty79 9y ago
  You are right although I don't fully understand your analogy but bitcoin never guaranteed all transactions will go through because it couldn't because noone could make a system with infinite capacity. 20$ transaction fee is an incentive for the users to restrain themselves to smaller number of larger transfers. Is the limit too strict? Probably. Miners still get a lot from mining rewards and don't need to be incentivised with fees yet, but there must be some limit that will force people pay for transactions because when mining rewards end there will be nothing to keep miners mining.
  - freeone3000 9y ago
    Visa manages to make all of its transactions go through. Mastercard doesn't seem to run into scaling problems. Paypal can transfer money at pretty much any time. Why is bitcoin exempt as a transaction layer?
    - scotty79 9y ago
      I don't know how many times I couldn't pay with my Visa because system is down or slow today or transaction gets rejected for whatever reason. I believe there's a subset of whole Visa thing that always works, does what it supposed to do and processes everything it supposed to (while cashing in few percents on each purchase) but it is far from perfect from the point of view of the user. The real difference is that visa has percentage fees on volume and bitcoin has fees dependent on number of transactions want to do at the moment. It's sensible since to avoid trusting single party bitcoin nodes all keep all thansactions that ever happened. Incentivising people to limit their number is a good thing for bitcoin network. But thanks to that bitcoin won't ever be Visa 2.0 For me bitcoin for payments should work similarily to how prepaid phones work. You land in another country, you buy a card from local provider, you charge it with bitcoins and you usr it to shop. I think bitpay is already doing something like that.
  - jpamata 9y ago
    > 20$ transaction fee is an incentive for the users to restrain themselves to smaller number of larger transfers. In my country (the Philippines) everyone is buying from high school kids to office workers. The current minimum transaction fee is around $40. To exchange your bitcoin to Philippine Peso (PHP), the fixed conversion fee is 5%. If those don't seem a lot, get this: 83% of Filipinos earn below $400 a month. Most of whom I know are HODLing their bitcoin because it's too expensive to move their money. They would rather wait for their investment to reap huge gains before they cash out. Bitcoin here is branded as a "get rich quick" investment scheme, and that's understandable, bitcoin doesn't have a valuable use case here. You can't buy anything here with bitcoin.
    - scotty79 9y ago
- endlessvoid94 9y ago
  OP saying that it was designed that way. We can disagree about whether or not the intended design is practical or not, but it's "technically" successful because it's operating exactly as it was designed.

always_good 9y ago

Well, that's not accurate either. Miners sort transactions by fee and fill up a 1MB block. Use https://estimatefee.com/ https://estimatefee.com/. Not paying enough to win the fee auction is not the same as no transactions getting through at all. You seem a bit misinformed to be using the "Dude" prologue.

Bombthecat 9y ago
https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/43155/do-unconfirmed-transactions-expire-after-some-time/43165#43165 https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/43155/do-unconfi... K thx bay
- hhbbhhg 9y ago
  What is it with bitcoins that attracts Reddit-dwelling idiots?
Beejeepa 9y ago
The market doesn't function when people can't transact freely. Price signals get distorted. When the blockchain is frozen, we don't know the actual supply and demand of Bitcoin. Bitcoin Cash fixes Bitcoin by providing a capacity market, where transactions can cost whatever nodes / miners can compete at.
theWatcher37 9y ago
Incorrect. The fact is the network lacked the capacity to handle the requested number of transactions, and in turn auctioned off the tickets to the lifeboat to whoever paid the most. You’re arguing “nobody died in the titanic that didn’t pay enough”, when the problem is clearly there aren’t enough lifeboats.
- gruez 9y ago
  why are you equating space on a global ledger with space on a lifeboat?
  - 9y ago

moduspol 9y ago

Dropping low-fee unconfirmed transactions is not the same as not accepting transactions.

pmorici 9y ago
What is low fee to you? Because there are people paying several bucks to do a transaction right now that are being dropped.
- moduspol 9y ago
  Sorry—-I meant low relative to the other pending transactions. They’re not low at all relative to other payment methods.
  - theWatcher37 9y ago
    This is certifiable.
    - Spivak 9y ago
      I mean from an end user perspective maybe but it's always been an auction where you can buy yourself priority. Nothing has really changed except now there are more people bidding higher.
      - pmorici 9y ago
        The thing that has changed is that the supply has been artificially limited where as before there was ample supply.

grubles 9y ago

Child pays for parent. Use it. https://themerkle.com/what-is-child-pay-for-parent/ https://themerkle.com/what-is-child-pay-for-parent/

owenversteeg 9y ago
TL;DR you perform a new transaction that depends on the prior, unconfirmed transaction. To do this you have to pay double fees for the new transaction to make it attractive to miners to confirm both.

gruez 9y ago

not really. by default, bitcoin core rebroadcasts your uncofirmed transactions periodically (not sure about the other clients). so as long as your client is open once every 72 hours, it won't disappear from the mempool. whether it gets confirmed is another story.