5 ms·

tbqh i'm more worried about being gunned down by the police than being arrested or being searched at this point. exhibit A: https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/statu

tbqh i'm more worried about being gunned down by the police than being arrested or being searched at this point. exhibit A: https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/939014159726870530 https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/939014159726870530 (warning to system-believers: the link contains video of police executing a prone, face down, unarmed, nonviolent, nonresisting, white male; the officer was acquitted)

backpropaganda 9y ago
I don't think I can watch this video, but I would like to know what happened. Can someone perhaps provide a "transcript"?
- cryoshon 9y ago
  imagine a man face down on the ground with his hands behind his head and his legs crossed in a narrow hallway. the man is sobbing in terror, and drunk. two cops are pointing assault weapons at the man and screaming at him from 20 feet down the hallway. eventually, they shoot him.
  - backpropaganda 9y ago
    Why do they shoot him? Did he move abruptly or something? What should I be doing if I find myself in a similar situation?
    - notatoad 9y ago
      I can't bring myself to watch it either, but from other descriptions: the police order the man to crawl towards them (while simultaneously yelling at him to put his hands in the air). As he's crawling along the floor, his pants start sliding off. When he reaches down to pull up his pants, the police kill him.
      - mitchellberry 9y ago
        People don't realise how natural a reaction this is also, if your pants are coming off it's muscle memory to grab them.
      - gst 9y ago
        "Jurors in the Daniel Shaver case were not allowed to know that the police officer who shot him had scratched “you’re fucked” into his service weapon." Source: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/footage-of-a-police-killing-that-jurors-didnt-punish/547868/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/footage...
      - sliverstorm 9y ago
        These cases are all pretty damn ridiculous, but do always seem to involve the victim doing something with the hands. Goes without saying this shouldn't be happening, but makes me think as a member of the public, step one is just, keep your hands where they can see them. (Which isn't big news)
    - orangecat 9y ago
      In hindsight, I think the only way he could have survived would have been to not move at all. The trigger-happy lunatic was going to shoot him the instant he made any "unexpected" motion, which was inevitable given the confusing and contradictory orders being shouted at him.
    - SerLava 9y ago
      There's not a lot you can do.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
- mojoe 9y ago
  I watched the video and read some background, basically my understanding is that the entire series of events went like this, at a high level: The guy in the hotel room had been showing someone his pellet gun. Someone saw this through the hotel room window, thinking it was a real gun, and called the cops. The cops arrived, expecting someone armed and dangerous. They seem really amped up on adrenaline. A woman and the man come out of the hotel room, and the cop with the assault rifle screams at them to get down on the ground. They comply, but seem scared and confused. The cop asks if they are drunk, which they deny. He asks if they'll be able to understand all his commands, and they say yes. He keeps screaming at them and cutting them off when they try to talk. The woman follows instructions and is successfully cuffed and taken away. The man tries to comply, but is sobbing and appears drunk. The cop gives him some (what seemed to me) not entirely clear instructions, and then tells the man to crawl toward him. After about 5 feet the man seems to lose his balance and try to pull up his pants, at which point the cop repeatly shoots him. At the end the two cops try to get in to the hotel room, but the key cards they are given don't work. The second cop drops a key card after trying it a handful of times, picks it up, and keeps trying, seemingly extremely agitated. The video then cuts out.
- Red_Tarsius 9y ago
  As the suspect was crawling toward the police, he moved his right arm to adjust his pants. Bang, dead. None of this would have happened if the sergeant hadn't given many contradictory instructions to the drunk victim. The team was allegedly afraid of an ambush from the adjacent room, but they throw any caution to the wind straight after that. That video is a masterclass in incompetence. Neither the sergeant nor the shooter received any meaningful punishment.
golergka 9y ago
So, the situation in the video goes like this: (1) police had reason to believe that the man was armed and (2) man made a movement that was looking like he was reaching for a firearm. Now, what police should do in a situation which combines data points (1) and (2)?
- kazagistar 9y ago
  Verify the firearm and attempt a non-lethal solution.
  - golergka 9y ago
    And would that be a good decision in a typical situation that combines said data points?
    - jwatte 9y ago
      It should be. Society is better off when the trained, paid officers, bear the risk, rather than unarmed civilians. As it is, any police officer can claim "I felt threatened" and do whatever they want. That is 100% a recipe for thuggery and oppression that does not belong in a civilized democracy. Proposal: always verify the gun. If you shoot someone that actually didn't have a weapon, it's manslaughter. If you plant a gun, it's murder.
    - gtirloni 9y ago
      The situation was not ONLY about those two data points. I think you're conveniently ignoring other facts like: he complied with police orders from the beginning, they had ample time to handcuff him, the police officer was imprecise in giving instructions and constantly threatened to kill him, etc, etc, etc. Police officers carrying Semi-Automatic weapons should not get a free pass to act as robots without situational awareness.
    - drdeadringer 9y ago
      You appear to be fishing for an answer you are expecting but are not getting. Please explain why you want the answer to be "no" or "the shooting was correct".
digitalengineer 9y ago
The question is: When police are holding you at gunpoint, and yelling inconsistent commands at you, and tell you to shut up when you ask for clarification, what are you supposed to do to survive the encounter? Answer: IT doesn't matter. The police are so hyped up, even laying on the ground unconscious can get you killed: 1: Alabama police officers beat an unconscious man who was ejected after a car crash. 2: 3-5 police officers piled up on a skinny kid that can't breathe, let alone move, and still one of them pulls out a gun and shoots him in the head like it's just another Tuesday. 3: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/21/fla-police-shoot-black-man-with-his-hands-up-as-he-tries-to-help-autistic-patient/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/... (Source Reddit, right now)

backpropaganda 9y ago

I don't think I can watch this video, but I would like to know what happened. Can someone perhaps provide a "transcript"?

cryoshon 9y ago
imagine a man face down on the ground with his hands behind his head and his legs crossed in a narrow hallway. the man is sobbing in terror, and drunk. two cops are pointing assault weapons at the man and screaming at him from 20 feet down the hallway. eventually, they shoot him.
- backpropaganda 9y ago
  Why do they shoot him? Did he move abruptly or something? What should I be doing if I find myself in a similar situation?
  - notatoad 9y ago
    I can't bring myself to watch it either, but from other descriptions: the police order the man to crawl towards them (while simultaneously yelling at him to put his hands in the air). As he's crawling along the floor, his pants start sliding off. When he reaches down to pull up his pants, the police kill him.
    - mitchellberry 9y ago
      People don't realise how natural a reaction this is also, if your pants are coming off it's muscle memory to grab them.
    - gst 9y ago
      "Jurors in the Daniel Shaver case were not allowed to know that the police officer who shot him had scratched “you’re fucked” into his service weapon." Source: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/footage-of-a-police-killing-that-jurors-didnt-punish/547868/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/footage...
    - sliverstorm 9y ago
      These cases are all pretty damn ridiculous, but do always seem to involve the victim doing something with the hands. Goes without saying this shouldn't be happening, but makes me think as a member of the public, step one is just, keep your hands where they can see them. (Which isn't big news)
  - orangecat 9y ago
    In hindsight, I think the only way he could have survived would have been to not move at all. The trigger-happy lunatic was going to shoot him the instant he made any "unexpected" motion, which was inevitable given the confusing and contradictory orders being shouted at him.
  - SerLava 9y ago
    There's not a lot you can do.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
mojoe 9y ago
I watched the video and read some background, basically my understanding is that the entire series of events went like this, at a high level: The guy in the hotel room had been showing someone his pellet gun. Someone saw this through the hotel room window, thinking it was a real gun, and called the cops. The cops arrived, expecting someone armed and dangerous. They seem really amped up on adrenaline. A woman and the man come out of the hotel room, and the cop with the assault rifle screams at them to get down on the ground. They comply, but seem scared and confused. The cop asks if they are drunk, which they deny. He asks if they'll be able to understand all his commands, and they say yes. He keeps screaming at them and cutting them off when they try to talk. The woman follows instructions and is successfully cuffed and taken away. The man tries to comply, but is sobbing and appears drunk. The cop gives him some (what seemed to me) not entirely clear instructions, and then tells the man to crawl toward him. After about 5 feet the man seems to lose his balance and try to pull up his pants, at which point the cop repeatly shoots him. At the end the two cops try to get in to the hotel room, but the key cards they are given don't work. The second cop drops a key card after trying it a handful of times, picks it up, and keeps trying, seemingly extremely agitated. The video then cuts out.
Red_Tarsius 9y ago
As the suspect was crawling toward the police, he moved his right arm to adjust his pants. Bang, dead. None of this would have happened if the sergeant hadn't given many contradictory instructions to the drunk victim. The team was allegedly afraid of an ambush from the adjacent room, but they throw any caution to the wind straight after that. That video is a masterclass in incompetence. Neither the sergeant nor the shooter received any meaningful punishment.

golergka 9y ago

So, the situation in the video goes like this: (1) police had reason to believe that the man was armed and (2) man made a movement that was looking like he was reaching for a firearm. Now, what police should do in a situation which combines data points (1) and (2)?

kazagistar 9y ago
Verify the firearm and attempt a non-lethal solution.
- golergka 9y ago
  And would that be a good decision in a typical situation that combines said data points?
  - jwatte 9y ago
    It should be. Society is better off when the trained, paid officers, bear the risk, rather than unarmed civilians. As it is, any police officer can claim "I felt threatened" and do whatever they want. That is 100% a recipe for thuggery and oppression that does not belong in a civilized democracy. Proposal: always verify the gun. If you shoot someone that actually didn't have a weapon, it's manslaughter. If you plant a gun, it's murder.
  - gtirloni 9y ago
    The situation was not ONLY about those two data points. I think you're conveniently ignoring other facts like: he complied with police orders from the beginning, they had ample time to handcuff him, the police officer was imprecise in giving instructions and constantly threatened to kill him, etc, etc, etc. Police officers carrying Semi-Automatic weapons should not get a free pass to act as robots without situational awareness.
  - drdeadringer 9y ago
    You appear to be fishing for an answer you are expecting but are not getting. Please explain why you want the answer to be "no" or "the shooting was correct".

digitalengineer 9y ago

The question is: When police are holding you at gunpoint, and yelling inconsistent commands at you, and tell you to shut up when you ask for clarification, what are you supposed to do to survive the encounter? Answer: IT doesn't matter. The police are so hyped up, even laying on the ground unconscious can get you killed: 1: Alabama police officers beat an unconscious man who was ejected after a car crash. 2: 3-5 police officers piled up on a skinny kid that can't breathe, let alone move, and still one of them pulls out a gun and shoots him in the head like it's just another Tuesday. 3: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/21/fla-police-shoot-black-man-with-his-hands-up-as-he-tries-to-help-autistic-patient/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/... (Source Reddit, right now)