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Why did he reach behind his back? Why can't people follow simple instructions? This video is grim, but there are so many other videos on YouTube that show how p

Why did he reach behind his back? Why can't people follow simple instructions? This video is grim, but there are so many other videos on YouTube that show how people consistently just do not listen to what is being said to them. If a person is pointing a machine gun at you, it is probably in your best interest to do exactly as they say and to do it slowly. what a waste.

joshuaheard 9y ago
You walk out of your hotel room after doing a couple of shots. You are surprised by 6 cops pointing guns at you. One cop is aiming a rifle at your face yelling contradictory instructions and saying he will shoot you if you don't comply. You try to ask a question, and he says shut up or he will shoot you. He says to get on your knees, put your hands up, cross your legs behind your back, and crawl forward. Go.
mikeash 9y ago
Why can’t people not shoot people who aren’t a threat?
ringaroundthetx 9y ago
Its just that these incidents happen in the same places that banned capital punishment But surprise, not being charged with any crime can get you executed by the state anyway
- foolrush 9y ago
  The history of policing is worth historicizing; policing was a result of protection of capital.
lb1lf 9y ago
It is (hopefully) not an everyday occurrence to suddenly face semi-military personnel pointing a gun at you as you round a corner. That poor guy's stress levels must have gone through the roof. Additionally, he is being yelled at, asked to do this, do that - or he'll get shot. I'd be confused and frightened like heck, too - and probably get a bullet for my trouble.
reitzensteinm 9y ago
The instructions were not simple. They were arbitrary, contradictory, contained explicit death threats screamed at a drunk and scared man. There's a good chance I would have met that same fate in his shoes. The police officer in charge (not the one that made the shots) either purposefully escalated the situation, which is murder, or was so incompetent he shouldn't be entrusted with handing out parking tickets.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- burntwater 9y ago
  I would hazard a guess there's a greater than 90% chance that ANY person in that situation would have ended up dead. Every action the police officers took escalated the situation, it was all but inevitable.
foolrush 9y ago
Have you ever given a public presentation in front of a number of people? Nervous tics can become augmented. Screaming “CRAWL TOWARDS ME” after you are instructed to put hands in air is absolutely criminal; it is coaxing a cognitive dissonance state. Think about what the officer screams, with a loaded weapon pointed at the individual, and then consider the duress and stress that individual might be under.
exodust 9y ago
His shorts were falling down, he was drunk, scared, and clumsy. Definitely not a threat. Cops failed to adjust to new information - that the suspect was not aggressive, very submissive, desperate not to be shot, crying, and cooperating. They should have expected errors and clumsy response to those commands. They basically shot a limp whimpering puppy dog crawling along the carpet.
gregshap 9y ago
In other words, everyday citizens need to make split-second life-or-death decisions, and one wrong move results in being shot by an unprofessional cretan.
Bluestrike2 9y ago
It does appear that he tried to comply. But he also received multiple, contradictory orders in the middle of an incredibly high-stress situation (sibling comments have talked about that aspect, so I'll refrain). From every cop I've talked to, and I have a few friends as well as relatives, an officer's training is supposed to emphasize the need for clarity and precision in giving a suspect orders. Especially at gunpoint. Any confusion increases the danger for everyone involved. At one point in the video, Shaver was down on the ground with his fingers interlaced behind his head and in plain view (~13:45). In that position, his hands are far enough away from pockets and waistbands that any attempt to retrieve a weapon will be clearly noticeable. Not to mention extremely difficult for him while laying prone; to reach his waistband, he'd have to release his fingers and reposition his entire arm with his hand moving along a semi-circle path that's generally going to be pretty wide unless you're talking about something with pretty extreme flexibility (even then, your shoulder blade is going to jump up noticeably. Shaver was compliant, and not in a position to easily threaten the officers. They had him in a perfect position for two officers to move forward, with one cuffing him/searching him while the other maintains watch with his weapon out. Instead, Officer Brailsford ordered Shaver to release his fingers, push himself up to a kneeling position, and literally start crawling (~16:25). This involved additional orders, some of which further contradicted the ones that literally came immediately before them and all of which contradicted the original ones Shaver was in compliance with. Worse yet, forcing Shaver to crawl ensured that one of his hands would wind up being close to his waistband as he moved forward. The one thing that they wanted to avoid in the first place. There's no way not to; it's how you maintain balance while crawling and is basically automatic. That's part of why forcing a suspect to crawl isn't (as far as I'm aware) part of any police procedure. It partially obscures at least one hand while crawling, the motions involved are similar to those that would be made if a suspect were pulling out a weapon to threaten you with, and the act of crawling is awkward as hell for the suspect. And when human bodies experience awkward movements, our reflexes react. In this case, it got Shaver shot. Those same issues also probably stressed the hell out of the other officers as well, as they now had to start judging each movement in the crawl. Giving them a very big benefit of the doubt, Officer Brailsford presumably wanted to get him away from the open doorway so he and the others wouldn't be exposed to anyone in the room. But they could have accomplished that by having Shaver stretching his hands out in front of him while on the ground, and having three officers advance forward. Two could literally drag him out of the way with one hand each while the other covered the doorway with a weapon. tl;dr - Brailsford had Shaver in a perfect position that greatly minimized risk to himself and the other officers. He ordered Shaver to leave that position, and in a way that increased their own risks and the tension in the hallway while making it more likely that Shaver would make a mistake while trying to comply with the contradictory orders.

joshuaheard 9y ago

You walk out of your hotel room after doing a couple of shots. You are surprised by 6 cops pointing guns at you. One cop is aiming a rifle at your face yelling contradictory instructions and saying he will shoot you if you don't comply. You try to ask a question, and he says shut up or he will shoot you. He says to get on your knees, put your hands up, cross your legs behind your back, and crawl forward. Go.

mikeash 9y ago

Why can’t people not shoot people who aren’t a threat?

ringaroundthetx 9y ago

Its just that these incidents happen in the same places that banned capital punishment But surprise, not being charged with any crime can get you executed by the state anyway

foolrush 9y ago
The history of policing is worth historicizing; policing was a result of protection of capital.

lb1lf 9y ago

It is (hopefully) not an everyday occurrence to suddenly face semi-military personnel pointing a gun at you as you round a corner. That poor guy's stress levels must have gone through the roof. Additionally, he is being yelled at, asked to do this, do that - or he'll get shot. I'd be confused and frightened like heck, too - and probably get a bullet for my trouble.

reitzensteinm 9y ago

The instructions were not simple. They were arbitrary, contradictory, contained explicit death threats screamed at a drunk and scared man. There's a good chance I would have met that same fate in his shoes. The police officer in charge (not the one that made the shots) either purposefully escalated the situation, which is murder, or was so incompetent he shouldn't be entrusted with handing out parking tickets.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
burntwater 9y ago
I would hazard a guess there's a greater than 90% chance that ANY person in that situation would have ended up dead. Every action the police officers took escalated the situation, it was all but inevitable.

foolrush 9y ago

Have you ever given a public presentation in front of a number of people? Nervous tics can become augmented. Screaming “CRAWL TOWARDS ME” after you are instructed to put hands in air is absolutely criminal; it is coaxing a cognitive dissonance state. Think about what the officer screams, with a loaded weapon pointed at the individual, and then consider the duress and stress that individual might be under.

exodust 9y ago

His shorts were falling down, he was drunk, scared, and clumsy. Definitely not a threat. Cops failed to adjust to new information - that the suspect was not aggressive, very submissive, desperate not to be shot, crying, and cooperating. They should have expected errors and clumsy response to those commands. They basically shot a limp whimpering puppy dog crawling along the carpet.

gregshap 9y ago

In other words, everyday citizens need to make split-second life-or-death decisions, and one wrong move results in being shot by an unprofessional cretan.

Bluestrike2 9y ago

It does appear that he tried to comply. But he also received multiple, contradictory orders in the middle of an incredibly high-stress situation (sibling comments have talked about that aspect, so I'll refrain). From every cop I've talked to, and I have a few friends as well as relatives, an officer's training is supposed to emphasize the need for clarity and precision in giving a suspect orders. Especially at gunpoint. Any confusion increases the danger for everyone involved. At one point in the video, Shaver was down on the ground with his fingers interlaced behind his head and in plain view (~13:45). In that position, his hands are far enough away from pockets and waistbands that any attempt to retrieve a weapon will be clearly noticeable. Not to mention extremely difficult for him while laying prone; to reach his waistband, he'd have to release his fingers and reposition his entire arm with his hand moving along a semi-circle path that's generally going to be pretty wide unless you're talking about something with pretty extreme flexibility (even then, your shoulder blade is going to jump up noticeably. Shaver was compliant, and not in a position to easily threaten the officers. They had him in a perfect position for two officers to move forward, with one cuffing him/searching him while the other maintains watch with his weapon out. Instead, Officer Brailsford ordered Shaver to release his fingers, push himself up to a kneeling position, and literally start crawling (~16:25). This involved additional orders, some of which further contradicted the ones that literally came immediately before them and all of which contradicted the original ones Shaver was in compliance with. Worse yet, forcing Shaver to crawl ensured that one of his hands would wind up being close to his waistband as he moved forward. The one thing that they wanted to avoid in the first place. There's no way not to; it's how you maintain balance while crawling and is basically automatic. That's part of why forcing a suspect to crawl isn't (as far as I'm aware) part of any police procedure. It partially obscures at least one hand while crawling, the motions involved are similar to those that would be made if a suspect were pulling out a weapon to threaten you with, and the act of crawling is awkward as hell for the suspect. And when human bodies experience awkward movements, our reflexes react. In this case, it got Shaver shot. Those same issues also probably stressed the hell out of the other officers as well, as they now had to start judging each movement in the crawl. Giving them a very big benefit of the doubt, Officer Brailsford presumably wanted to get him away from the open doorway so he and the others wouldn't be exposed to anyone in the room. But they could have accomplished that by having Shaver stretching his hands out in front of him while on the ground, and having three officers advance forward. Two could literally drag him out of the way with one hand each while the other covered the doorway with a weapon. tl;dr - Brailsford had Shaver in a perfect position that greatly minimized risk to himself and the other officers. He ordered Shaver to leave that position, and in a way that increased their own risks and the tension in the hallway while making it more likely that Shaver would make a mistake while trying to comply with the contradictory orders.