5 ms·

Honest question: what is the big deal about syspatch? I see OpenBSD folks talk about it as if it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. How is this different

by st3fan 9y ago

Honest question: what is the big deal about syspatch? I see OpenBSD folks talk about it as if it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. How is this different from what many distributions have had for more than a decade in the form of apt or yum?

throwaway2048 9y ago
Its not really, but previously you had to build from sources to apply security/reliability fixes between releases.
rst 9y ago
Just glancing at the man page, atomic rollback kinda jumps out...
- jethro_tell 9y ago
  Is that the same as using yum history to roll back?
lima 9y ago
Windows too! (sort of)
swixmix 9y ago
> what is the big deal about syspatch? It's not revolutionary, just very convenient. It's automatic, and I think M:Tier offers a similar service.[0] > How is this different from […] apt or yum? It's a "utility for security and reliability binary updates to the base system."[1] Syspatch is only for base system, not ported packages. [0]: https://stable.mtier.org/ https://stable.mtier.org/ [1]: https://www.openbsd.org/61.html https://www.openbsd.org/61.html [2]: Package Management https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq15.html https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq15.html
loeg 9y ago
Can't use Linux distribution tools like apt/yum unless you package the update contents as rpm/dpkg files and distribute apt/yum with the base system. Neither of those is happening in OpenBSD, or likely any BSD. (I can go into more detail on why if you're curious.) In some ways, the BSDs are just catching up to Linux in terms of update distribution mechanism. They all have a history of being self-hosting compile-from-source systems, and some greybeards are still pretty attached to that idea. As someone who discovered Linux first and happily used it for many years before discovering the BSDs, I think there's a lot Linux gets right that BSDs will or should adopt to be relevant. (There are also many things the BSDs get right, of course.) This is a good example of that.
- floatboth 9y ago
  Packaged base is a beta feature in FreeBSD https://wiki.freebsd.org/PkgBase https://wiki.freebsd.org/PkgBase But IMO there's nothing wrong with freebsd-update.
  - rleigh 9y ago
    Using pkg to update both base and ports with a single tool will be nice. As will updating jails robustly; freebsd-update is not so great in jails in my experience.
    - cperciva 9y ago
      freebsd-update works fine in jails, as long as you use it correctly. Unfortunately there are a few landmines due to versioning issues.
      - sydney6 9y ago
        ".. use it correctly": As in excluding the kernel component in freebsd-update.conf or how do you mean?
        cperciva 9y ago
        The place people usually trip up is with freebsd-update getting confused about what version it's trying to update. The '--currently-running <release>' option is your friend here.
  - loeg 9y ago
    Yeah, I'm familiar — I'm a FreeBSD developer. Pkgbase is a feature in development; it's not officially complete or supported in any release.
- PeachPlum 9y ago
  > some greybeards are still pretty attached to that idea "Whenever you remove any fence, always pause long enough to ask yourself, 'Why was it put there in the first place?'" G.K. Chesterton

by st3fan 9y ago

throwaway2048 9y ago

Its not really, but previously you had to build from sources to apply security/reliability fixes between releases.

rst 9y ago

Just glancing at the man page, atomic rollback kinda jumps out...

jethro_tell 9y ago
Is that the same as using yum history to roll back?

lima 9y ago

Windows too! (sort of)

swixmix 9y ago

> what is the big deal about syspatch? It's not revolutionary, just very convenient. It's automatic, and I think M:Tier offers a similar service.[0] > How is this different from […] apt or yum? It's a "utility for security and reliability binary updates to the base system."[1] Syspatch is only for base system, not ported packages. [0]: https://stable.mtier.org/ https://stable.mtier.org/ [1]: https://www.openbsd.org/61.html https://www.openbsd.org/61.html [2]: Package Management https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq15.html https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq15.html

loeg 9y ago

Can't use Linux distribution tools like apt/yum unless you package the update contents as rpm/dpkg files and distribute apt/yum with the base system. Neither of those is happening in OpenBSD, or likely any BSD. (I can go into more detail on why if you're curious.) In some ways, the BSDs are just catching up to Linux in terms of update distribution mechanism. They all have a history of being self-hosting compile-from-source systems, and some greybeards are still pretty attached to that idea. As someone who discovered Linux first and happily used it for many years before discovering the BSDs, I think there's a lot Linux gets right that BSDs will or should adopt to be relevant. (There are also many things the BSDs get right, of course.) This is a good example of that.

floatboth 9y ago
Packaged base is a beta feature in FreeBSD https://wiki.freebsd.org/PkgBase https://wiki.freebsd.org/PkgBase But IMO there's nothing wrong with freebsd-update.
- rleigh 9y ago
  Using pkg to update both base and ports with a single tool will be nice. As will updating jails robustly; freebsd-update is not so great in jails in my experience.
  - cperciva 9y ago
    freebsd-update works fine in jails, as long as you use it correctly. Unfortunately there are a few landmines due to versioning issues.
    - sydney6 9y ago
      ".. use it correctly": As in excluding the kernel component in freebsd-update.conf or how do you mean?
      - cperciva 9y ago
        The place people usually trip up is with freebsd-update getting confused about what version it's trying to update. The '--currently-running <release>' option is your friend here.
- loeg 9y ago
  Yeah, I'm familiar — I'm a FreeBSD developer. Pkgbase is a feature in development; it's not officially complete or supported in any release.
PeachPlum 9y ago
> some greybeards are still pretty attached to that idea "Whenever you remove any fence, always pause long enough to ask yourself, 'Why was it put there in the first place?'" G.K. Chesterton