7 ms·

The size of blocks is not core to the algorithm of Bitcoin though. What would you say to the person trying to send $30 only to have $20 of it eaten up in fees?

The size of blocks is not core to the algorithm of Bitcoin though. What would you say to the person trying to send $30 only to have $20 of it eaten up in fees? Come back later when you can afford to use Bitcoin?

thatcat 9y ago
I'd say stop storing your spending money as btc, it's an asset not cash. Can you liquidate your 30$ peice of gold in < 4 hours for market value? Probably not.
- Shaanie 9y ago
  Indeed, what part of the name "cryptocurrency" would lead someone to believe it to be like cash?
  - BrianGraggg 9y ago
    Currency A currency in the most specific use of the word refers to money in any form when in actual use or circulation as a medium of exchange, especially circulating banknotes and coins. A more general definition is that a currency is a system of money (monetary units) in common use, especially in a nation. Under this definition, British pounds, U.S. dollars, and European euros are examples of currency. Wikipedia
- puranjay 9y ago
  Yes, a "currency" should be treated as an asset, not cash. The pro-BTC arguments are becoming absolutely inane
  - BrianGraggg 9y ago
    Currency A currency in the most specific use of the word refers to money in any form when in actual use or circulation as a medium of exchange, especially circulating banknotes and coins. A more general definition is that a currency is a system of money (monetary units) in common use, especially in a nation. Under this definition, British pounds, U.S. dollars, and European euros are examples of currency. Wikipedia
    - Beejeepa 9y ago
      Stores-of-value aren't "actually used" nor "medium of exchange". Bitcoin Cash fixes Bitcoin, restoring its utility and will cannibalize Bitcoin's market share.
  - lottin 9y ago
    To me it sounds like an admission that Bitcoin doesn't work too well as a currency.
  - tymmc 9y ago
    It's classic goalpost-moving.
    - thatcat 9y ago
      AKA pivoting.
- eterm 9y ago
  "Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" Peer to peer cash. Not "Gold", not "asset", but "Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash".
  - etherael 9y ago
    Bitcoin cash is still that.
    - goialoq 9y ago
      For those who don't know, Bitcoin forked into 1 "new" Bitcoin (kept the name, changed the model from currency to speculative asset), and 2 Bitcoin Cash, that continued development along the original crypto-currency design. https://www.investopedia.com/tech/bitcoin-vs-bitcoin-cash-whats-difference/ https://www.investopedia.com/tech/bitcoin-vs-bitcoin-cash-wh...
      - revmoo 9y ago
        This is not accurate at all
    - makomk 9y ago
      Bitcoin Cash does indeed have very low fees... and about a tenth the transaction volume of Bitcoin proper, with few places using it, mainly just a handful of people involved in creating it. It's certainly not as ridiculous an option as it was back before the difficulty adjustment fix when its supporters were promoting it as the fast option despite it usually taking days for transactions to confirm (supporters responding that block times were as low as a minute sometimes, and they were right... except it was a entirely bimodal distribution, with most of the time spent in the "hours per block" part). However, the increased transaction capacity people are promoting is still about 100x its current transaction rate, and it's entirely unclear how well it'd handle scaling up by that much in practice. Especially since I'm pretty sure it lacks some of the scaling work that the original Bitcoin has. Also, the rampant dishonesty and all the attempts by sites and services owned by a guy with a major investment in it to trick people into thinking it is Bitcoin don't inspire confidence.
- 1ris 9y ago
  I can take my maple leave or krugerrand and change that in any crash for gold/western union/money exchange shed for almost market rate in minutes. There are plenty of them. Even I take a cap that is its faster and cheaper than bitcoin.
  - ethftw 9y ago
    I can take my seed words inside my brain through airport security. Let's not get started on verification of the asset!
moduspol 9y ago
Use a different cryptocurrency. Seriously. And I'm not trying to be cheeky. If Bitcoin ends up only being a settlement layer, it'll still be a colossal success just being a decentralized, supply-limited, uncensorable, world-accessible payment system and store of value. If someone else solves the scaling debacle better, I'll be the first to recommend that normal people switch to it. But it's not easy, and the world is watching Bitcoin. Governments are starting to accept its existence, big financial institutions are starting (just this month) to allow options trading, etc. That stuff is far more important even for other cryptocurrencies than low fees. After six months of no issues with Bitcoin options trading, it's only a matter of time before other cryptocurrencies get the same treatment. That's why we need Bitcoin to be rock steady and predictable, while others can try to solve these tough problems.
- noobermin 9y ago
  This sounds a hell lot like changing the goal posts.
  - rescripting 9y ago
    Does that matter? If you're looking to develop a drug to treat hypertension but end up with Viagra by accident instead, do you throw it away because that wasn't the original goal?
    - TimJYoung 9y ago
      It certainly matters if you've still got a lot of people running around telling anyone that will listen that the drug is a sure-fire cure for hypertension.
      - raugustinus 9y ago
        There's a lot of people in the world running around telling people all kinds of things.
    - rabidrat 9y ago
douglaswlance 9y ago
Trade smaller amounts with a different token. Bitcoin, as it stands now, is a value store, not an everyday currency. You wouldn't buy your lunch with a sliver of gold. You'd use paper. Bitcoin is gold. Other tokens are paper currency.
Zarath 9y ago
tbh, the smaller amount transacted, the less decentralization is necessary IMO. This is why people will tell you to use other, more centralized, less secure cryptos.

thatcat 9y ago

I'd say stop storing your spending money as btc, it's an asset not cash. Can you liquidate your 30$ peice of gold in < 4 hours for market value? Probably not.

Shaanie 9y ago
Indeed, what part of the name "cryptocurrency" would lead someone to believe it to be like cash?
- BrianGraggg 9y ago
  Currency A currency in the most specific use of the word refers to money in any form when in actual use or circulation as a medium of exchange, especially circulating banknotes and coins. A more general definition is that a currency is a system of money (monetary units) in common use, especially in a nation. Under this definition, British pounds, U.S. dollars, and European euros are examples of currency. Wikipedia
puranjay 9y ago
Yes, a "currency" should be treated as an asset, not cash. The pro-BTC arguments are becoming absolutely inane
- BrianGraggg 9y ago
  Currency A currency in the most specific use of the word refers to money in any form when in actual use or circulation as a medium of exchange, especially circulating banknotes and coins. A more general definition is that a currency is a system of money (monetary units) in common use, especially in a nation. Under this definition, British pounds, U.S. dollars, and European euros are examples of currency. Wikipedia
  - Beejeepa 9y ago
    Stores-of-value aren't "actually used" nor "medium of exchange". Bitcoin Cash fixes Bitcoin, restoring its utility and will cannibalize Bitcoin's market share.
- lottin 9y ago
  To me it sounds like an admission that Bitcoin doesn't work too well as a currency.
- tymmc 9y ago
  It's classic goalpost-moving.
  - thatcat 9y ago
    AKA pivoting.
eterm 9y ago
"Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" Peer to peer cash. Not "Gold", not "asset", but "Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash".
- etherael 9y ago
  Bitcoin cash is still that.
  - goialoq 9y ago
    For those who don't know, Bitcoin forked into 1 "new" Bitcoin (kept the name, changed the model from currency to speculative asset), and 2 Bitcoin Cash, that continued development along the original crypto-currency design. https://www.investopedia.com/tech/bitcoin-vs-bitcoin-cash-whats-difference/ https://www.investopedia.com/tech/bitcoin-vs-bitcoin-cash-wh...
    - revmoo 9y ago
      This is not accurate at all
  - makomk 9y ago
    Bitcoin Cash does indeed have very low fees... and about a tenth the transaction volume of Bitcoin proper, with few places using it, mainly just a handful of people involved in creating it. It's certainly not as ridiculous an option as it was back before the difficulty adjustment fix when its supporters were promoting it as the fast option despite it usually taking days for transactions to confirm (supporters responding that block times were as low as a minute sometimes, and they were right... except it was a entirely bimodal distribution, with most of the time spent in the "hours per block" part). However, the increased transaction capacity people are promoting is still about 100x its current transaction rate, and it's entirely unclear how well it'd handle scaling up by that much in practice. Especially since I'm pretty sure it lacks some of the scaling work that the original Bitcoin has. Also, the rampant dishonesty and all the attempts by sites and services owned by a guy with a major investment in it to trick people into thinking it is Bitcoin don't inspire confidence.
1ris 9y ago
I can take my maple leave or krugerrand and change that in any crash for gold/western union/money exchange shed for almost market rate in minutes. There are plenty of them. Even I take a cap that is its faster and cheaper than bitcoin.
- ethftw 9y ago
  I can take my seed words inside my brain through airport security. Let's not get started on verification of the asset!

moduspol 9y ago

Use a different cryptocurrency. Seriously. And I'm not trying to be cheeky. If Bitcoin ends up only being a settlement layer, it'll still be a colossal success just being a decentralized, supply-limited, uncensorable, world-accessible payment system and store of value. If someone else solves the scaling debacle better, I'll be the first to recommend that normal people switch to it. But it's not easy, and the world is watching Bitcoin. Governments are starting to accept its existence, big financial institutions are starting (just this month) to allow options trading, etc. That stuff is far more important even for other cryptocurrencies than low fees. After six months of no issues with Bitcoin options trading, it's only a matter of time before other cryptocurrencies get the same treatment. That's why we need Bitcoin to be rock steady and predictable, while others can try to solve these tough problems.

noobermin 9y ago
This sounds a hell lot like changing the goal posts.
- rescripting 9y ago
  Does that matter? If you're looking to develop a drug to treat hypertension but end up with Viagra by accident instead, do you throw it away because that wasn't the original goal?
  - TimJYoung 9y ago
    It certainly matters if you've still got a lot of people running around telling anyone that will listen that the drug is a sure-fire cure for hypertension.
    - raugustinus 9y ago
      There's a lot of people in the world running around telling people all kinds of things.
  - rabidrat 9y ago

douglaswlance 9y ago

Trade smaller amounts with a different token. Bitcoin, as it stands now, is a value store, not an everyday currency. You wouldn't buy your lunch with a sliver of gold. You'd use paper. Bitcoin is gold. Other tokens are paper currency.

Zarath 9y ago

tbh, the smaller amount transacted, the less decentralization is necessary IMO. This is why people will tell you to use other, more centralized, less secure cryptos.