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> I think programmers should pay much more attention to listening to and working with their peers than to rituals and tools, and that we should be skeptical of
by JepZ 9y ago
> I think programmers should pay much more attention to listening to and working with their peers than to rituals and tools, and that we should be skeptical of too much process or methodologies that promise to magically make everyone more productive.
Sounds pretty much like:
> Individuals and interactions over processes and tools [1]
I don't know why, but somehow people don't get it that agile is not a methodology but a spirit.
[1] http://agilemanifesto.org http://agilemanifesto.org
- hawski 9y ago> I don't know why, but somehow people don't get it that agile is not a methodology but a spirit. Because of all the agile coaches, boards, trainings, conferences and companies. It feels then more like a religion.
- ris 9y ago> It feels then more like a religion. Oh wow amen to this. I've started calling one of our managers "Reverend". Particularly when he begins a meeting with a statement that's starting to sound a lot like "we are gathered here today to...".
- catnaroek 9y agoScientology, to be specific.
- virgilp 9y ago> It feels then more like a religion. A cult, more than religion. I believe "cargo cult" is the exact term.
- BaronSamedi 9y agoI'm sympathetic to agile but it does have a quasi-religious feel to it. I've noticed that its proponents make claims about the right way to do things with an unwarranted level of certainty. When I ask "why" (politely) I seldom get a satisfactory answer and often they get offended by the very question.
- zzzcpan 9y agoAll methodologies are created for people who do not understand "why", they are inherently religious. Otherwise why would you need a methodology if you do understand all the "why"s? You can just develop one much more suited for your people and your projects and fine tune it over time.
- falcolas 9y ago> It feels then more like a religion. And this is not helped by the true believers constantly saying "you're doing it wrong." So, point me at someone doing it right then! Because the landscape is coated with people "doing it wrong", and since I'm doing this as a job, I don't have time to sift through piles of pyrite for a single nugget of gold.
- gurkendoktor 9y agoYou forgot the tools! The current "capital-A Agile" project I'm helping out at started with long sessions where management and Agile Coaches developed a highly sophisticated (buggy) JIRA ticket workflow. Even now, when we ask for something simple like a new Confluence board, we have to actively push back against new rules, additional restrictions, and more gimmicky Atlassian plugins. It pains me that these misguided parasites are paid to make my life worse.
- GrumpyNl 9y agoAs soon as they start to treat is a a religion, its over. Its all about the team. I have worked with all the methodology and it all comes down to the team. For a good team it doesnt matter íf you do waterfall or agile, focus and dedication is the key.
- lmkg 9y agoI've said something like this before, I'll probably say it again. The change to Agile is often led by management, not by developers. And when it's led by management, it's done in a way that keeps management central to the development process (which is the opposite of original Agile), which means an over-focus on process. Part of this is cynical survival skills: management wanna manage. The more forward-thinking ones probably realize that original Agile is an existential threat, and they can 'get ahead of' that threat by controlling how it's implemented. But most commonly, it's just plain simple myopia: Process guys will tend to view Agile as a process because they're process guys. And when they implement it, they will make management of the process the central role in everything.