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The article makes it sound like it's fake accounts who are against some in the media, but it's really the entire population. The article calls out fake profile

The article makes it sound like it's fake accounts who are against some in the media, but it's really the entire population. The article calls out fake profile pictures on facebook as some indication of an artificial message. This is wrong - many people on facebook use fake profile pictures. I use a fake profile picture myself, although my account is genuine. Probably a third of your facebook friend list uses fake profile pictures - go check for yourself. The article also says they have collected a database of facebook accounts that post pro-Duterte messages as if this is somehow an indictment. With Duterte having an 80%+ approval rating across 100mil people population, many of whom have Facebook accounts, do you think a database of 2mil posters is somehow unexpected or fake? From my time in the Philippines, everyone on the street supports Duterte because he's given them a sense of safety again. For many in western countries, this kind of feeling is unknown because you've likely never walked the streets expecting to be killed at any moment - you have working police and institutions that keep you safe. For many years, the Philippines did not have this, and they see Duterte as having helped make them safe. This breeds an almost fanatical devotion for obvious reasons, and most Phillipinos on social media will defend him with ferocity. The article tries to associate this as something bad and fake. But it's not, it's real and genuine. You can open up Twitter right now and go to Trump's feed and you will see people who hate him and many who wish violence on him. That doesn't mean those people are fake - and the people supporting Duterte aren't fake either. Here's a quick video on how regular people in the Philippines feel about articles like this one: https://youtu.be/siAjsu0ZmKE?t=429 https://youtu.be/siAjsu0ZmKE?t=429

Lazare 9y ago
The issue with fake accounts is they can help skew popular opinion. It's not a defence to say "yeah, there's fake accounts, but popular opinion agrees with them". All that means is they (might be) working. > The article calls out fake profile pictures on facebook as some indication of an artificial message. It did not; it called out fake profiles. Nowhere in the article did it suggest that a fake profile picture was itself evidence of a fake profile. > The article also says they have collected a database of facebook accounts that post pro-Duterte messages as if this is somehow an indictment. It's a database of (mostly real) accounts that post messages that originate with fake accounts; it's a way of measuring the scale of the problem. If millions of real accounts echo these fake messages, it does't mean that there isn't a problem, it means the problem is really big. > For many in western countries, this kind of feeling is unknown because you've likely never walked the streets expecting to be killed at any moment - you have working police and institutions that keep you safe. The homicide rate in the Philippines isn't that high; it's comparable to where the US was 20 years ago. That's obviously not ideal, but there are countries where when expecting death when you walk down the street is reasonable. Honduras has a murder rate of 90 per 100k people; El Salvador is 70 per 100k people. The Philippines is 9 per 100k. > The article tries to associate this as something bad and fake. But it's not, it's real and genuine. You're talking about a "sense of safety" and "feelings", and then discounting claims of fake stories as if those stories couldn't possibly influence these feelings. Nobody is claiming that Duterte isn't popular; we're discussing why he's popular. Maybe he's popular because of stories spread by fake Facebook accounts that made people feel safer, even though the fundamentals haven't changed? Plus, if you look at the actual numbers, in Duterte's first year in office, according the the Philippine National Police, murders actually increased by 22.75%. > everyone on the street supports Duterte because he's given them a sense of safety again You don't see any issues here?
- RyanZAG 9y ago
  The article gives zero proof of any kind of fake accounts aside from fake profile pictures, and calls Facebook out for not removing the accounts, even thought Facebook says they have removed the fake ones. So clearly Facebook does not feel that those particular accounts are fake either. Calling someone you don't like a "fake account" (as someone has already hinted about me in this very comment section!), does not suddenly turn it into a fake account. It's a real account until you provide absolute proof - especially when the supposed fake account has the same opinion as 80mil+ people in a country. Sorry. The rest of your argument hinges on the idea that 80mil people are terribly stupid and can't tell fake accounts from real accounts - even though they live in the country - and have fallen for a ruse. While you, in your great wisdom - who has probably never been in the Philippines? - know them all to be fake without any evidence. That's a fairly poor argument in my opinion.
  - Lazare 9y ago
    As we've learned to our sorrow people in first world countries (eg, Americans, Germans, etc.) can't reliably detect fake accounts or fake news stories. Why should Filipinos be uniquely able to do so?
    - RyanZAG 9y ago
      I don't believe that is true. You want it to be true, and so you've fallen for it. The only kind of fake news stories anybody falls for are fake news stories that support their own biases. Such as this article, but that goes without saying.
      - yorwba 9y ago
        > The only kind of fake news stories anybody falls for are fake news stories that support their own biases. I'd rather say that people only fall for fake news stories that don't run counter to their own biases. I.e. when someone is completely ignorant about a topic, and the first story they read about it is fake news, they might believe it. In any case, you seem to be agreeing that people fall for fake news that supports their own biases, hence: >> people in first world countries (eg, Americans, Germans, etc.) can't reliably detect fake accounts or fake news stories. They can reliably detect whether something does or does not agree with their preexisting knowledge/biases, but that doesn't always help with detecting fake accounts or fake news.
Joe-Z 9y ago
Thank you for the insight. It seems to me people in the western world/media just can't accept that leaders in other countries can genuinely have high approvals in the population despite behaving dictatorial and using violence (I'm also thinking of people like Putin and Erdogan here). This is something that we've (we as in western europeans) also had our fair share of and thought it over and done with. The reality seems to be though that time and again crises arise which enable violent/dictatorial leaders to rise to power. I don't try to defend anything Duterte's doing here. In fact I don't really know too much about what he's done, other than the horrendous 'everbody's free to kill drug dealers' policy. I just don't like that so many news outlets seem to be fixated on discrediting genuine approval and followings as all just being 'fake news'.
- Joe-Z 9y ago
  Please people, tell me what is wrong with this comment! Tear me up, show me my errors, make me understand, but don't just downvote me and leave me in the dark.
  - mythrwy 9y ago
    What is wrong with that comment is very simple. It suggests the unthinkable possibility that a leader, whom the downvoter doesn't care for, may actually be popular with others. And that just can't be right, it has to be all propaganda and fake news causing this mistaken popularity. Similar to "Russians stole the election!" in the US. It's a failure to comprehend or accept people have different backgrounds, beliefs and values and a certainty that preference and political opinion are objective truth. Because you suggested many people may in fact possibly support Duarte, you threaten the illusion which is tantamount to supporting Duarte yourself in the mind of the downvoter. It really is a shockingly form of mental myopia from otherwise intelligent people and renders them unable to accurately predict and understand large chunks of the world (like last election in US). Whether it's politics, religion, unrealistic business goals or unrealistic career goals ("I'm going to be a famous rap artist or else play in the NBA!") I think there is simply no way to get hated on faster than attempting to ground an illusion with reality. You become perceived as part of the problem when you do that. (Still needs to be done though IMOP).

Lazare 9y ago

The issue with fake accounts is they can help skew popular opinion. It's not a defence to say "yeah, there's fake accounts, but popular opinion agrees with them". All that means is they (might be) working. > The article calls out fake profile pictures on facebook as some indication of an artificial message. It did not; it called out fake profiles. Nowhere in the article did it suggest that a fake profile picture was itself evidence of a fake profile. > The article also says they have collected a database of facebook accounts that post pro-Duterte messages as if this is somehow an indictment. It's a database of (mostly real) accounts that post messages that originate with fake accounts; it's a way of measuring the scale of the problem. If millions of real accounts echo these fake messages, it does't mean that there isn't a problem, it means the problem is really big. > For many in western countries, this kind of feeling is unknown because you've likely never walked the streets expecting to be killed at any moment - you have working police and institutions that keep you safe. The homicide rate in the Philippines isn't that high; it's comparable to where the US was 20 years ago. That's obviously not ideal, but there are countries where when expecting death when you walk down the street is reasonable. Honduras has a murder rate of 90 per 100k people; El Salvador is 70 per 100k people. The Philippines is 9 per 100k. > The article tries to associate this as something bad and fake. But it's not, it's real and genuine. You're talking about a "sense of safety" and "feelings", and then discounting claims of fake stories as if those stories couldn't possibly influence these feelings. Nobody is claiming that Duterte isn't popular; we're discussing why he's popular. Maybe he's popular because of stories spread by fake Facebook accounts that made people feel safer, even though the fundamentals haven't changed? Plus, if you look at the actual numbers, in Duterte's first year in office, according the the Philippine National Police, murders actually increased by 22.75%. > everyone on the street supports Duterte because he's given them a sense of safety again You don't see any issues here?

RyanZAG 9y ago
The article gives zero proof of any kind of fake accounts aside from fake profile pictures, and calls Facebook out for not removing the accounts, even thought Facebook says they have removed the fake ones. So clearly Facebook does not feel that those particular accounts are fake either. Calling someone you don't like a "fake account" (as someone has already hinted about me in this very comment section!), does not suddenly turn it into a fake account. It's a real account until you provide absolute proof - especially when the supposed fake account has the same opinion as 80mil+ people in a country. Sorry. The rest of your argument hinges on the idea that 80mil people are terribly stupid and can't tell fake accounts from real accounts - even though they live in the country - and have fallen for a ruse. While you, in your great wisdom - who has probably never been in the Philippines? - know them all to be fake without any evidence. That's a fairly poor argument in my opinion.
- Lazare 9y ago
  As we've learned to our sorrow people in first world countries (eg, Americans, Germans, etc.) can't reliably detect fake accounts or fake news stories. Why should Filipinos be uniquely able to do so?
  - RyanZAG 9y ago
    I don't believe that is true. You want it to be true, and so you've fallen for it. The only kind of fake news stories anybody falls for are fake news stories that support their own biases. Such as this article, but that goes without saying.
    - yorwba 9y ago
      > The only kind of fake news stories anybody falls for are fake news stories that support their own biases. I'd rather say that people only fall for fake news stories that don't run counter to their own biases. I.e. when someone is completely ignorant about a topic, and the first story they read about it is fake news, they might believe it. In any case, you seem to be agreeing that people fall for fake news that supports their own biases, hence: >> people in first world countries (eg, Americans, Germans, etc.) can't reliably detect fake accounts or fake news stories. They can reliably detect whether something does or does not agree with their preexisting knowledge/biases, but that doesn't always help with detecting fake accounts or fake news.

Joe-Z 9y ago

Thank you for the insight. It seems to me people in the western world/media just can't accept that leaders in other countries can genuinely have high approvals in the population despite behaving dictatorial and using violence (I'm also thinking of people like Putin and Erdogan here). This is something that we've (we as in western europeans) also had our fair share of and thought it over and done with. The reality seems to be though that time and again crises arise which enable violent/dictatorial leaders to rise to power. I don't try to defend anything Duterte's doing here. In fact I don't really know too much about what he's done, other than the horrendous 'everbody's free to kill drug dealers' policy. I just don't like that so many news outlets seem to be fixated on discrediting genuine approval and followings as all just being 'fake news'.

Joe-Z 9y ago
Please people, tell me what is wrong with this comment! Tear me up, show me my errors, make me understand, but don't just downvote me and leave me in the dark.
- mythrwy 9y ago
  What is wrong with that comment is very simple. It suggests the unthinkable possibility that a leader, whom the downvoter doesn't care for, may actually be popular with others. And that just can't be right, it has to be all propaganda and fake news causing this mistaken popularity. Similar to "Russians stole the election!" in the US. It's a failure to comprehend or accept people have different backgrounds, beliefs and values and a certainty that preference and political opinion are objective truth. Because you suggested many people may in fact possibly support Duarte, you threaten the illusion which is tantamount to supporting Duarte yourself in the mind of the downvoter. It really is a shockingly form of mental myopia from otherwise intelligent people and renders them unable to accurately predict and understand large chunks of the world (like last election in US). Whether it's politics, religion, unrealistic business goals or unrealistic career goals ("I'm going to be a famous rap artist or else play in the NBA!") I think there is simply no way to get hated on faster than attempting to ground an illusion with reality. You become perceived as part of the problem when you do that. (Still needs to be done though IMOP).