6 ms·

if you are going to do this, make the checkout form look completely functional(credit card, email, address etc). Why? Because there is something like a 90% cart

by vaksel 16y ago

if you are going to do this, make the checkout form look completely functional(credit card, email, address etc). Why? Because there is something like a 90% cart abandonment rate...and this way you get the real numbers.

Silhouette 16y ago
If you set up a fake web site, took credit card numbers, and then said "Sorry, we're fake", then I think you would rapidly have other concerns, starting with whether you would even be legally permitted to run a business any more by the time several different groups of lawyers had finished chewing you over and you'd served your time for the fraud and identity theft convictions.
- vaksel 16y ago
  who said anything about taking credit card numbers? 1. You don't save credit card numbers...in fact you don't transmit anything from the form...just clear it out without saving. 2. You don't tell them "sorry we are fake"...you tell them "This product is no longer available for sale...your credit card will not be charged". 3. You have to remember this is a limited run. At most you'll have 10-15 buyers before you realize that you are onto something and would stop your test. So the chance of someone bitching at you for "taking" their credit card number is slim. So there is no fraud, no identity theft...the only unethical thing you are doing...is making someone read a description of a product that's not available for sale. And in return you get your REAL numbers...not the inflated ones that can send you chasing the wrong idea. I'll give you an actual example...156(order form impressoins) = 18(order form submits) = 13(actual sales)
  - aaco 16y ago
    I find this would not be a fair approach, even if you do not really collect any data from the form. Would you tell them "This product is no longer available for sale" when it never was? In fact it doesn't even exist. Would it be fair to make people spend their time filling a form that won't result in anything? Who can guarantee you did not collect the data submitted by the form?
    - vaksel 16y ago
      frankly screw being fair...this is business...you have to want it. It's simple market research. Would you rather spend 6 months hacking together a product just so you don't offend 10 people? if you always play by the rules you'll never make it. While you spend 6 months to try one idea, and another 6 months for another. Your competitor is going to run 10 tests in 1 week to find the idea that is the most profitable for him. So by the time you get done with your 2nd test, the other guy has already been in a profitable business for a year.
      - aaco 16y ago
        "Would you rather spend 6 months hacking together a product just so you don't offend 10 people?" Probably not, if by "offend" you mean "market research", but that is not what I'm talking about. I'm specifically talking about the method you proposed, which I don't find to be fair. In your question, you seem to imply that "market research" as a whole is offensive, which is not what it seems to me. Look at the Dry Test (the method Tim Ferris wrote about) mentioned up in this thread. It seems fair enough to me, and you still get the email of the people who are interested in your product. "if you always play by the rules you'll never make it." I simply don't buy that. Do you really mean never?
        vaksel 16y ago
        I'd rather be not fair to 10 people, than waste 6 months chasing an idea that doesn't work. Except the dry test won't tell you anything. Cart abandonment rate means that the numbers you get don't mean anything. Your actual sales maybe 10 times less. If you are bootstrapping then yes...I do mean never. Well there are probably a few exceptions...but that's just pure luck.
      - Silhouette 16y ago
        > if you always play by the rules you'll never make it. I suspect many people reading this very forum are living proof that you are wrong. Indeed, two of the most popular themes in the experience of successful founders seem to be building mutually beneficial relationships with business contacts and building a trustworthy brand in your market. In any case, "this is business" is not an excuse for antisocial or unethical behaviour, and a cheap throwaway line is not justification for deliberately messing other people around.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]

by vaksel 16y ago

Silhouette 16y ago

If you set up a fake web site, took credit card numbers, and then said "Sorry, we're fake", then I think you would rapidly have other concerns, starting with whether you would even be legally permitted to run a business any more by the time several different groups of lawyers had finished chewing you over and you'd served your time for the fraud and identity theft convictions.

vaksel 16y ago
who said anything about taking credit card numbers? 1. You don't save credit card numbers...in fact you don't transmit anything from the form...just clear it out without saving. 2. You don't tell them "sorry we are fake"...you tell them "This product is no longer available for sale...your credit card will not be charged". 3. You have to remember this is a limited run. At most you'll have 10-15 buyers before you realize that you are onto something and would stop your test. So the chance of someone bitching at you for "taking" their credit card number is slim. So there is no fraud, no identity theft...the only unethical thing you are doing...is making someone read a description of a product that's not available for sale. And in return you get your REAL numbers...not the inflated ones that can send you chasing the wrong idea. I'll give you an actual example...156(order form impressoins) = 18(order form submits) = 13(actual sales)
- aaco 16y ago
  I find this would not be a fair approach, even if you do not really collect any data from the form. Would you tell them "This product is no longer available for sale" when it never was? In fact it doesn't even exist. Would it be fair to make people spend their time filling a form that won't result in anything? Who can guarantee you did not collect the data submitted by the form?
  - vaksel 16y ago
    frankly screw being fair...this is business...you have to want it. It's simple market research. Would you rather spend 6 months hacking together a product just so you don't offend 10 people? if you always play by the rules you'll never make it. While you spend 6 months to try one idea, and another 6 months for another. Your competitor is going to run 10 tests in 1 week to find the idea that is the most profitable for him. So by the time you get done with your 2nd test, the other guy has already been in a profitable business for a year.
    - aaco 16y ago
      "Would you rather spend 6 months hacking together a product just so you don't offend 10 people?" Probably not, if by "offend" you mean "market research", but that is not what I'm talking about. I'm specifically talking about the method you proposed, which I don't find to be fair. In your question, you seem to imply that "market research" as a whole is offensive, which is not what it seems to me. Look at the Dry Test (the method Tim Ferris wrote about) mentioned up in this thread. It seems fair enough to me, and you still get the email of the people who are interested in your product. "if you always play by the rules you'll never make it." I simply don't buy that. Do you really mean never?
      - vaksel 16y ago
        I'd rather be not fair to 10 people, than waste 6 months chasing an idea that doesn't work. Except the dry test won't tell you anything. Cart abandonment rate means that the numbers you get don't mean anything. Your actual sales maybe 10 times less. If you are bootstrapping then yes...I do mean never. Well there are probably a few exceptions...but that's just pure luck.
    - Silhouette 16y ago
      > if you always play by the rules you'll never make it. I suspect many people reading this very forum are living proof that you are wrong. Indeed, two of the most popular themes in the experience of successful founders seem to be building mutually beneficial relationships with business contacts and building a trustworthy brand in your market. In any case, "this is business" is not an excuse for antisocial or unethical behaviour, and a cheap throwaway line is not justification for deliberately messing other people around.
deleted 16y ago
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