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That is why we need to be talking about this now, not later. Those benefits are all true, and that means BTC might win. This should terrify you. Think of a wor

That is why we need to be talking about this now, not later. Those benefits are all true, and that means BTC might win. This should terrify you. Think of a world in which you cannot collect taxes, and that not even prison can strip the wealthy of their coins. The wealthy will be able to do whatever they want. How long until it becomes a crime to speak out against bitcoin? Or if not a crime, so socially backwards that you're looked at with the same contempt that the Chinese general population looks at their political activists? If you dare say this might be a bad approach, and you don't swallow the same madness that has overtaken everyone else, will you be shunned, left behind, or forced into it? The latter is the most worrisome; you won't want to keep your money in fiat, and the last billion people to switch will be subservient to the first ten thousand. Should I be scared now, posting this here? For trying to say that we should launch a coordinated effort to stop this madness in its infancy? I run a very real risk of this following me around the rest of my life. Communism was once in its infancy too, and those who agitated for it or against it were penalized or rewarded by the waves of chance. This disease -- the desire to get wealthy -- has been the basis of so much misery, and so much creation. It's as human as laughter. We'll never get rid of the lust for wealth. The only way we can manage it as a species is to control it. And Bitcoin removes this control.

Frogolocalypse 9y ago
> Think of a world in which you cannot collect taxes That's the problem. That's exactly what is already happening. The rich already don't pay tax, and neither do the corporations they control. The only thing that is being changed is that the oversight of the masses is now being removed, because banks can no longer be trusted to look after the interests of their clients over the interests of the state. I suspect the only viable taxes in future will be consumption taxes, property taxes, and estate taxes. If ya wanna eat, ya pay tax. If ya wanna buy something, ya pay tax. If ya wanna live somewhere, ya pay tax. If ya die, your assets are divided, the state collects its portion, and then everyone goes on their merry way again. It's no surprise that these are resisted, because they are the only taxes that are effective against wealthy people.
- lucaspiller 9y ago
  The loophole that allows the wealthy to avoid paying taxes usually has nothing to do with hiding money though. In the EU there is a lot of talk right now about companies like Apple avoiding taxes, if you buy an iPhone in France pretty much nothing of that sale goes to the French government, but it’s not that they are saying “no we won’t give you money”, it’s that the law allows their company to be setup in a way to avoid paying these taxes in France. If anything Bitcoin and other crypto currencies are going to allow you to hide and transfer wealth even more. Yes Bitcoin isn’t truly anonymous, but it’s so much different to a traditional bank where you need to prove your identity and they actively report large transactions to the authorities. And as for the taxes you mentioned, it’s pretty easy to avoid those too. If I live in Russia and I buy an iPhone in Europe I’ll have to pay VAT (consumption tax) of around 20%, but when I go back home, which is outside the EU, (home being where I am a tax resident, not necessarily where I live on a day to day basis) I can claim that 20% back. The same applies for visitors to the US.
CryptoPunk 9y ago
>>This should terrify you. Think of a world in which you cannot collect taxes, and that not even prison can strip the wealthy of their coins. The wealthy will be able to do whatever they want. The state can exert control over all real estate, and can control the flow of physical goods within its jurisdiction (and into and out of its jurisdiction), whether or not it has control over the flow of money. Taxes will never disappear. They will just decline. I share Friedman's view that the effect that electronic cash will have, of reducing how much the government taxes, will be beneficial to society: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK_xv_4KpzM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK_xv_4KpzM If we don't impose non-political checks on government power, it will continue to grow, to the detriment of the economy: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DMnxtDwUQAAiuSy.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DMnxtDwUQAAiuSy.jpg:large
stale2002 9y ago
> How long until it becomes a crime to speak out against bitcoin? > Should I be scared now, posting this here? You seem to be the only one who wants to take freedoms away from other people. The bitcoiners don't want to take away YOUR rights. That would go against the entire concept of bitcoin, which is resistance to censorship. Bitcoin removes control, it does not add to it.

Frogolocalypse 9y ago

> Think of a world in which you cannot collect taxes That's the problem. That's exactly what is already happening. The rich already don't pay tax, and neither do the corporations they control. The only thing that is being changed is that the oversight of the masses is now being removed, because banks can no longer be trusted to look after the interests of their clients over the interests of the state. I suspect the only viable taxes in future will be consumption taxes, property taxes, and estate taxes. If ya wanna eat, ya pay tax. If ya wanna buy something, ya pay tax. If ya wanna live somewhere, ya pay tax. If ya die, your assets are divided, the state collects its portion, and then everyone goes on their merry way again. It's no surprise that these are resisted, because they are the only taxes that are effective against wealthy people.

lucaspiller 9y ago
The loophole that allows the wealthy to avoid paying taxes usually has nothing to do with hiding money though. In the EU there is a lot of talk right now about companies like Apple avoiding taxes, if you buy an iPhone in France pretty much nothing of that sale goes to the French government, but it’s not that they are saying “no we won’t give you money”, it’s that the law allows their company to be setup in a way to avoid paying these taxes in France. If anything Bitcoin and other crypto currencies are going to allow you to hide and transfer wealth even more. Yes Bitcoin isn’t truly anonymous, but it’s so much different to a traditional bank where you need to prove your identity and they actively report large transactions to the authorities. And as for the taxes you mentioned, it’s pretty easy to avoid those too. If I live in Russia and I buy an iPhone in Europe I’ll have to pay VAT (consumption tax) of around 20%, but when I go back home, which is outside the EU, (home being where I am a tax resident, not necessarily where I live on a day to day basis) I can claim that 20% back. The same applies for visitors to the US.

CryptoPunk 9y ago

>>This should terrify you. Think of a world in which you cannot collect taxes, and that not even prison can strip the wealthy of their coins. The wealthy will be able to do whatever they want. The state can exert control over all real estate, and can control the flow of physical goods within its jurisdiction (and into and out of its jurisdiction), whether or not it has control over the flow of money. Taxes will never disappear. They will just decline. I share Friedman's view that the effect that electronic cash will have, of reducing how much the government taxes, will be beneficial to society: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK_xv_4KpzM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK_xv_4KpzM If we don't impose non-political checks on government power, it will continue to grow, to the detriment of the economy: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DMnxtDwUQAAiuSy.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DMnxtDwUQAAiuSy.jpg:large

stale2002 9y ago

> How long until it becomes a crime to speak out against bitcoin? > Should I be scared now, posting this here? You seem to be the only one who wants to take freedoms away from other people. The bitcoiners don't want to take away YOUR rights. That would go against the entire concept of bitcoin, which is resistance to censorship. Bitcoin removes control, it does not add to it.