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I never found out if the new leafs actually use proper thermal management with a coolant loop on the pack. It's a shame the never did it on the original and bat

I never found out if the new leafs actually use proper thermal management with a coolant loop on the pack. It's a shame the never did it on the original and battery life suffers because of it.

CalChris 9y ago
I’m in the temperate Bay Area and I’ve done well enough without. But I was in Tucson for Thanksgiving and my cousin was replacing a 12V for his SUV. Apparently 12Vs don’t live long down there.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  Lead acid batteries only last 2-3 years in hot climates. Battery thermal management is mandatory for longevity (which Tesla does).
mtgx 9y ago
This is why we need Tesla to keep pushing carmakers forward. The majority of them seem either clueless about building long-range EVs, or they don't care enough to make them "great". So they don't bother to create a new EV platform from scratch, but just re-purpose their ICE cars (limiting them in total range and efficiency), or do stuff like supporting only lower-power fast chargers, or cut corners on the type of batteries they use, which degrade fast, or don't properly protect them, and so on. Plus, they have an incentive to drag their feet with EV progress. The incentive is not having to suffer dramatic changes within how their products are made and what type of people they need to hire or fire, and so on. It's the same incentive that kept Nokia and Blackberry from not just starting to build touchscreen phones, but committing to making great ones and actually transitioning the whole company to them. Who here can say that most car companies are currently ready to transition their whole companies to making EVs? I don't think any major car company actually thinks like that right now, or if they do their plans read more like "We'll get started on becoming an EV company 15 years from now".
- mywittyname 9y ago
  EVs are expensive and cost cutting was the only way to make early ones viable. Even with all that cost cutting, the Leaf is a $30-35k car.
dangrossman 9y ago
> I never found out if the new leafs actually use proper thermal management with a coolant loop on the pack. It does not. It's just a 25% larger version of last year's battery. A 60 kWh battery pack manufactured by LG Chem is slated for later in 2018. LG Chem's battery packs for other EVs are liquid cooled. My uninformed theory is that Nissan contracted to buy far more batteries from AESC than they ended up needing for the Leaf's sales volume, and is still getting rid of them.
- vvanders 9y ago
  Damn, that's unfortunate. It has a bad side-effect of giving EVs a worse name then the deserve.
  - lafar6502 9y ago
    ? man what are you talking about? Its normal battery degradation and the car doesnt need any special thermal management or whatever you call it. Besides, if anyone believes in the leaps in battery capacity and charging speeds, you should throw away your old battery every 2 years because it's already old, too heavy and not environmentally friendly enough.
    - dangrossman 9y ago
      > Its normal battery degradation and the car doesnt need any special thermal management or whatever you call it. Sorry but you're wrong on this. The Nissan Leaf's battery degradation is not normal; it's so abnormal that Nissan was forced to retroactively add a warranty for it, and redesign the battery pack twice within the first generation to try to slow it down. Cars driven in hot climates lost upwards of 30% of their battery capacity in 1-2 years because the battery has no real thermal management, which virtually every other EV on the road has. Tesla's vehicles, for example, have been on the road as long as the Leaf. They lose about 5% battery capacity in the first 50,000 miles and less than 10% after 100,000 miles on average. Chevrolet has had zero warranty claims in the entire life of the Volt vehicle program for battery degradation. Meanwhile, my Nissan Leaf has 23,000 miles on the odometer and has lost over 25% of its original battery capacity. > Besides, if anyone believes in the leaps in battery capacity and charging speeds, you should throw away your old battery every 2 years because it's already old, too heavy and not environmentally friendly enough. You're being disingenuous, right? The batteries don't change that much that quickly, and there's no environmental case for throwing away $5000+ in working batteries every other year. There's nobody selling upgraded replacement batteries for EVs anyway.

I never found out if the new leafs actually use proper thermal management with a coolant loop on the pack. It's a shame the never did it on the original and battery life suffers because of it.

CalChris 9y ago

I’m in the temperate Bay Area and I’ve done well enough without. But I was in Tucson for Thanksgiving and my cousin was replacing a 12V for his SUV. Apparently 12Vs don’t live long down there.

toomuchtodo 9y ago
Lead acid batteries only last 2-3 years in hot climates. Battery thermal management is mandatory for longevity (which Tesla does).

mtgx 9y ago

This is why we need Tesla to keep pushing carmakers forward. The majority of them seem either clueless about building long-range EVs, or they don't care enough to make them "great". So they don't bother to create a new EV platform from scratch, but just re-purpose their ICE cars (limiting them in total range and efficiency), or do stuff like supporting only lower-power fast chargers, or cut corners on the type of batteries they use, which degrade fast, or don't properly protect them, and so on. Plus, they have an incentive to drag their feet with EV progress. The incentive is not having to suffer dramatic changes within how their products are made and what type of people they need to hire or fire, and so on. It's the same incentive that kept Nokia and Blackberry from not just starting to build touchscreen phones, but committing to making great ones and actually transitioning the whole company to them. Who here can say that most car companies are currently ready to transition their whole companies to making EVs? I don't think any major car company actually thinks like that right now, or if they do their plans read more like "We'll get started on becoming an EV company 15 years from now".

mywittyname 9y ago
EVs are expensive and cost cutting was the only way to make early ones viable. Even with all that cost cutting, the Leaf is a $30-35k car.

dangrossman 9y ago

> I never found out if the new leafs actually use proper thermal management with a coolant loop on the pack. It does not. It's just a 25% larger version of last year's battery. A 60 kWh battery pack manufactured by LG Chem is slated for later in 2018. LG Chem's battery packs for other EVs are liquid cooled. My uninformed theory is that Nissan contracted to buy far more batteries from AESC than they ended up needing for the Leaf's sales volume, and is still getting rid of them.

vvanders 9y ago
Damn, that's unfortunate. It has a bad side-effect of giving EVs a worse name then the deserve.
- lafar6502 9y ago
  ? man what are you talking about? Its normal battery degradation and the car doesnt need any special thermal management or whatever you call it. Besides, if anyone believes in the leaps in battery capacity and charging speeds, you should throw away your old battery every 2 years because it's already old, too heavy and not environmentally friendly enough.
  - dangrossman 9y ago
    > Its normal battery degradation and the car doesnt need any special thermal management or whatever you call it. Sorry but you're wrong on this. The Nissan Leaf's battery degradation is not normal; it's so abnormal that Nissan was forced to retroactively add a warranty for it, and redesign the battery pack twice within the first generation to try to slow it down. Cars driven in hot climates lost upwards of 30% of their battery capacity in 1-2 years because the battery has no real thermal management, which virtually every other EV on the road has. Tesla's vehicles, for example, have been on the road as long as the Leaf. They lose about 5% battery capacity in the first 50,000 miles and less than 10% after 100,000 miles on average. Chevrolet has had zero warranty claims in the entire life of the Volt vehicle program for battery degradation. Meanwhile, my Nissan Leaf has 23,000 miles on the odometer and has lost over 25% of its original battery capacity. > Besides, if anyone believes in the leaps in battery capacity and charging speeds, you should throw away your old battery every 2 years because it's already old, too heavy and not environmentally friendly enough. You're being disingenuous, right? The batteries don't change that much that quickly, and there's no environmental case for throwing away $5000+ in working batteries every other year. There's nobody selling upgraded replacement batteries for EVs anyway.