4 ms·

I believe Tim Ferris wrote that for his business ideas he would first create the actual site to sell it and then spend a few hundred dollars on adwords. When t

by mattm 16y ago

I believe Tim Ferris wrote that for his business ideas he would first create the actual site to sell it and then spend a few hundred dollars on adwords. When the user clicked to purchase, they would be shown a page saying "Sorry, this product is still in development page. Please enter your email to find out when it will be available." That would let him know exactly how many people were willing to buy. It's a pretty clever idea. For only a few hundred dollars and a little bit of time building the website, you will be able to find out what your conversion rate would be. I may do this for an idea that I am just starting work on.

steveklabnik 16y ago
The other advantage to this (at least from what I've read, I have yet to try this) is that since they've basically already declared intent, they're also much more likely to enter that email. I mean, if it's interesting, why wouldn't you want to hear about it when it's released?
- Silhouette 16y ago
  > I mean, if it's interesting, why wouldn't you want to hear about it when it's released? (a) Because I no longer give any e-mail address to a business unless I'm starting to deal with it Right Now. Insisting on one is a good way to make sure I never deal with you again. (b) Because I wouldn't trust a company anyway after I discovered that it was advertising a product or service as though it were real but actually it was just messing me around and wasting my time.
  - steveklabnik 16y ago
    There are always exceptions to every rule. This also relates to a big point in the article, you are not your customer. What matters is if _enough_ people are willing to do this, not if all of them are. This kind of thing won't work for every business, but it's a hard lesson to learn: most people are not you. I was reminded of this the other day when there was an IAMA Netflix Employee, and they mentioned that they get a fair number of phone calls asking about how to return their DVDs 'to that box outside of the gas station.' Yep, people think Redbox is run by Netflix because they both use red, and both sell movies...
michael_dorfman 16y ago
That's called a Dry Test. It's not original with Tim; there are quite a number of sources on the subject.
- mattm 16y ago
  Fair enough. It just happened to be where I learned of the concept.
vaksel 16y ago
if you are going to do this, make the checkout form look completely functional(credit card, email, address etc). Why? Because there is something like a 90% cart abandonment rate...and this way you get the real numbers.
- Silhouette 16y ago
  If you set up a fake web site, took credit card numbers, and then said "Sorry, we're fake", then I think you would rapidly have other concerns, starting with whether you would even be legally permitted to run a business any more by the time several different groups of lawyers had finished chewing you over and you'd served your time for the fraud and identity theft convictions.
  - vaksel 16y ago
    who said anything about taking credit card numbers? 1. You don't save credit card numbers...in fact you don't transmit anything from the form...just clear it out without saving. 2. You don't tell them "sorry we are fake"...you tell them "This product is no longer available for sale...your credit card will not be charged". 3. You have to remember this is a limited run. At most you'll have 10-15 buyers before you realize that you are onto something and would stop your test. So the chance of someone bitching at you for "taking" their credit card number is slim. So there is no fraud, no identity theft...the only unethical thing you are doing...is making someone read a description of a product that's not available for sale. And in return you get your REAL numbers...not the inflated ones that can send you chasing the wrong idea. I'll give you an actual example...156(order form impressoins) = 18(order form submits) = 13(actual sales)
    - aaco 16y ago
      I find this would not be a fair approach, even if you do not really collect any data from the form. Would you tell them "This product is no longer available for sale" when it never was? In fact it doesn't even exist. Would it be fair to make people spend their time filling a form that won't result in anything? Who can guarantee you did not collect the data submitted by the form?
raganwald 16y ago
Do it politely. I saw a massive banner on the side of an industrial building advertising loft condominiums. I called, only to be told, "Sorry, we're just gauging market interest." That was a major turn-off and when they did get around to selling the units for real, I wasn't interested.

by mattm 16y ago

steveklabnik 16y ago

The other advantage to this (at least from what I've read, I have yet to try this) is that since they've basically already declared intent, they're also much more likely to enter that email. I mean, if it's interesting, why wouldn't you want to hear about it when it's released?

Silhouette 16y ago
> I mean, if it's interesting, why wouldn't you want to hear about it when it's released? (a) Because I no longer give any e-mail address to a business unless I'm starting to deal with it Right Now. Insisting on one is a good way to make sure I never deal with you again. (b) Because I wouldn't trust a company anyway after I discovered that it was advertising a product or service as though it were real but actually it was just messing me around and wasting my time.
- steveklabnik 16y ago
  There are always exceptions to every rule. This also relates to a big point in the article, you are not your customer. What matters is if _enough_ people are willing to do this, not if all of them are. This kind of thing won't work for every business, but it's a hard lesson to learn: most people are not you. I was reminded of this the other day when there was an IAMA Netflix Employee, and they mentioned that they get a fair number of phone calls asking about how to return their DVDs 'to that box outside of the gas station.' Yep, people think Redbox is run by Netflix because they both use red, and both sell movies...

michael_dorfman 16y ago

That's called a Dry Test. It's not original with Tim; there are quite a number of sources on the subject.

mattm 16y ago
Fair enough. It just happened to be where I learned of the concept.

vaksel 16y ago

if you are going to do this, make the checkout form look completely functional(credit card, email, address etc). Why? Because there is something like a 90% cart abandonment rate...and this way you get the real numbers.

Silhouette 16y ago
If you set up a fake web site, took credit card numbers, and then said "Sorry, we're fake", then I think you would rapidly have other concerns, starting with whether you would even be legally permitted to run a business any more by the time several different groups of lawyers had finished chewing you over and you'd served your time for the fraud and identity theft convictions.
- vaksel 16y ago
  who said anything about taking credit card numbers? 1. You don't save credit card numbers...in fact you don't transmit anything from the form...just clear it out without saving. 2. You don't tell them "sorry we are fake"...you tell them "This product is no longer available for sale...your credit card will not be charged". 3. You have to remember this is a limited run. At most you'll have 10-15 buyers before you realize that you are onto something and would stop your test. So the chance of someone bitching at you for "taking" their credit card number is slim. So there is no fraud, no identity theft...the only unethical thing you are doing...is making someone read a description of a product that's not available for sale. And in return you get your REAL numbers...not the inflated ones that can send you chasing the wrong idea. I'll give you an actual example...156(order form impressoins) = 18(order form submits) = 13(actual sales)
  - aaco 16y ago
    I find this would not be a fair approach, even if you do not really collect any data from the form. Would you tell them "This product is no longer available for sale" when it never was? In fact it doesn't even exist. Would it be fair to make people spend their time filling a form that won't result in anything? Who can guarantee you did not collect the data submitted by the form?

raganwald 16y ago

Do it politely. I saw a massive banner on the side of an industrial building advertising loft condominiums. I called, only to be told, "Sorry, we're just gauging market interest." That was a major turn-off and when they did get around to selling the units for real, I wasn't interested.