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To me the books looks quite underwhelming. It seems focused too much on the superficial aspects of programming, like jargon a software engineer may mention occa

To me the books looks quite underwhelming. It seems focused too much on the superficial aspects of programming, like jargon a software engineer may mention occasionally at home. It may look fun and appealing to their adult parent. But what can a child learn from it? Maybe doing more with math (even if at 1+1=2 level), repetitive processes as loops, idea of recursion, idea that a computer cannot compute more than one can do with pencil and paper.. More _universal_ aspects of computation can be really illuminating to kids, I think.

ThomPete 9y ago
They can learn concepts, ways of thinking about problems etc.
peacetreefrog 9y ago
It is sort of funny the book is in the ABC style (presumably helping kids at the age they're trying to learn their ABCs) and then talks about things like garbage collection. Sort of disparate. Oh well, some portion of a kids books are for the parent too, and it's really sort of random what kids will take to. It's not like Brown Bear makes any sense. I bought a copy of this for my 15 mo old.
matthjensen 9y ago
This critique underestimates the value of language and concrete diction for learning concepts. If a child learns the definition of key words, she'll carry the concepts they represent with her forever. Once she know knows "map", "value", and "key", she will own the concepts, Map, Value, and Key. Definitions give a child the opportunity to learn -- and a parent the opportunity to teach -- valuable concepts that will enrich her world.
- eevilspock 9y ago
  No, I don't think it underestimates at all. Saying they should learn more fundamental concepts first doesn't mean don't stretch them. For example, seed the ideas of physics early (mass, energy, gravity), because those are things that actually exist around them and for which you can reinforce by pointing them out. But "map" and "key" and "garbage collection"? Those are far too specific, certainly not fundamental, and have no real world analog that is meaningful for them. If you really really want to impart to them the concept of software, then do that! The phrase "garbage collection" is not important. The idea of a program and that it makes the stuff they see happen on the screen is what is key. @partycoder has the right idea: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15881930 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15881930 (I work with children and am respected for my ability to teach them sophisticated ideas.)
astrodust 9y ago
You've got to start somewhere.
racl101 9y ago
Yeah, I can see most kids just respond: "huh? Mom, can we read 'The Going To Bed Book' again?"
jesperlang 9y ago
The author says the purpose of this book was to answer "what daddy does at work" so in that regard I don't think it's underwhelming. However, I can't help but think that adults (programmers) will enjoy this more than children. As a teaching book for programming it's quite underwhelming indeed! I am a programmer but I have always been interested in the learning process and mentoring. So in recent year I have conducted some self-study on these topics. Now this is such an immense topic and I have surrendered to my ignorance on so many levels. But, from what I can tell, there is a lot of dogma that we trust blindly, a lot of great old ideas of course (Piaget, Dewey, etc) that have been a great influence but not enough (and simplifying an incredibly complex topic). Some insights I've had that have made me realize how hard education is getting right (forgive the simplifying, but it needs to fit a HN comment) * Children have many different ways of understanding and sense-making, but we have a very simplified/dogmatic view of how chilren learn. * We seem to overemphasize practical activity at the expense of other ways of grasping meaning (e.g abstract thinking) * We make false assumptions: "The absence of abstraction awarness or articulation of it is a sign that abstractions are not at work in their thinking" * ...I could go on.. Barely scratching the surface I have realized how little I know. This is such an interesting topic and you can learn a lot studying the pioneers, Piaget, Montessori, etc. but always have a critical eye! More recent literature I can highly recommend the works of Kieran Egan. Being an educator is incredibly rewarding but I think we as programmers need to be much more humble when approaching the teaching practice..

ThomPete 9y ago

They can learn concepts, ways of thinking about problems etc.

peacetreefrog 9y ago

It is sort of funny the book is in the ABC style (presumably helping kids at the age they're trying to learn their ABCs) and then talks about things like garbage collection. Sort of disparate. Oh well, some portion of a kids books are for the parent too, and it's really sort of random what kids will take to. It's not like Brown Bear makes any sense. I bought a copy of this for my 15 mo old.

matthjensen 9y ago

This critique underestimates the value of language and concrete diction for learning concepts. If a child learns the definition of key words, she'll carry the concepts they represent with her forever. Once she know knows "map", "value", and "key", she will own the concepts, Map, Value, and Key. Definitions give a child the opportunity to learn -- and a parent the opportunity to teach -- valuable concepts that will enrich her world.

eevilspock 9y ago
No, I don't think it underestimates at all. Saying they should learn more fundamental concepts first doesn't mean don't stretch them. For example, seed the ideas of physics early (mass, energy, gravity), because those are things that actually exist around them and for which you can reinforce by pointing them out. But "map" and "key" and "garbage collection"? Those are far too specific, certainly not fundamental, and have no real world analog that is meaningful for them. If you really really want to impart to them the concept of software, then do that! The phrase "garbage collection" is not important. The idea of a program and that it makes the stuff they see happen on the screen is what is key. @partycoder has the right idea: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15881930 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15881930 (I work with children and am respected for my ability to teach them sophisticated ideas.)

astrodust 9y ago

You've got to start somewhere.

racl101 9y ago

Yeah, I can see most kids just respond: "huh? Mom, can we read 'The Going To Bed Book' again?"

jesperlang 9y ago

The author says the purpose of this book was to answer "what daddy does at work" so in that regard I don't think it's underwhelming. However, I can't help but think that adults (programmers) will enjoy this more than children. As a teaching book for programming it's quite underwhelming indeed! I am a programmer but I have always been interested in the learning process and mentoring. So in recent year I have conducted some self-study on these topics. Now this is such an immense topic and I have surrendered to my ignorance on so many levels. But, from what I can tell, there is a lot of dogma that we trust blindly, a lot of great old ideas of course (Piaget, Dewey, etc) that have been a great influence but not enough (and simplifying an incredibly complex topic). Some insights I've had that have made me realize how hard education is getting right (forgive the simplifying, but it needs to fit a HN comment) * Children have many different ways of understanding and sense-making, but we have a very simplified/dogmatic view of how chilren learn. * We seem to overemphasize practical activity at the expense of other ways of grasping meaning (e.g abstract thinking) * We make false assumptions: "The absence of abstraction awarness or articulation of it is a sign that abstractions are not at work in their thinking" * ...I could go on.. Barely scratching the surface I have realized how little I know. This is such an interesting topic and you can learn a lot studying the pioneers, Piaget, Montessori, etc. but always have a critical eye! More recent literature I can highly recommend the works of Kieran Egan. Being an educator is incredibly rewarding but I think we as programmers need to be much more humble when approaching the teaching practice..