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tl;dr - Most of the article tries to justify why it's important to Learn to sell. Actionable guidance: "cold calling, sending tons of emails, doing prospect/c

tl;dr - Most of the article tries to justify why it's important to Learn to sell. Actionable guidance: "cold calling, sending tons of emails, doing prospect/company research and developing cold leads into warm ones" and get a job in sales ("role", "experience", "career"). My personal project is a Chinese learning page. https://pingtype.github.io https://pingtype.github.io I tried sending hundreds of emails, researching all the Chinese language centres in Taiwan to find contact email addresses for the department, and sometimes even the direct email addresses for the tutors. I wrote a short email explaining what my program does, and how it's helping me learn. Nobody replied. I made a YouTube video as an example of what it can do. I posted on Facebook, where my 3900 friends (who I all met face to face) mostly ignored it (29 likes). I submitted it as a Show HN. Nobody up-voted it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14907618 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14907618 Can anybody give more helpful instructions? I'm using Pingtype to read the Bible and song lyrics all the time, and my Chinese is improving - after failing with 9 other methods before. https://pingtype.github.io/docs/blog.html#failing https://pingtype.github.io/docs/blog.html#failing I really get discouraged by the lack of interest though, and the "trial by fire" of being ignored by the world is really depressing. For me there's no "uncertainty being on a quota compensation plan" - I would certainly be broke.

nesyt 9y ago
I'm not the target market and I don't have any idea how to use your tool. The UI reminds me of old grayscale Mac OS. Salespeople are (usually, I'm stereotyping) 'dressed to impress'. Maybe you should put a tie on your project.
- peterburkimsher 9y ago
  What colour should the tie be, and where? Seriously. Do you want orange buttons? Specific, actionable feedback, please!
  - markfer 9y ago
    Do you want him to write the code for you too? It looks like an app from the 90's. There is zero design. If you want people to use it, you have to sell them on the idea of WHY and HOW they'll benefit. If you aren't willing to do that, then you've already lost.
    - peterburkimsher 9y ago
      I've written about my experience in the blog. Why and how will you benefit? You won't, because you're not trying to learn Chinese. "There's zero design" - you just said "You're ugly". What is ugly? Should I lose weight? Plastic surgery? Wear different clothes? Tell me what to fix and I can try! But insults get nowhere. I also think it's very ironic to criticise my design decision on Hacker News. Is there any "copy" here? Design? It's functional. I like the style of HN. But it sure doesn't follow your "best practices" of design.
sogen 9y ago
Hi Peter, this might sound harsh, but first of all 1.- Get a domain.com to look more professional otherwise if I see "GitHub.io" looks like a code repository Pick a better name for your product. Right now it doesn't mean anything (i.e. dropbox reminds people of storage, submittable.com also sounds like form management, hope you get the idea) 2.- Look at well designed websites (i.e Invision, xero.com, mint.com. stripe.com) and notice the difference. 3.- Copy. There's zero copy. Check mailchimp.com for great voice and tone. 4.- No Pricing info, policy, FAQ, etc. 5.- A short 1-2 minutes explainer Video (optional) 6.- Look at well done explainer videos 7.- The landing page doesn't necessarily have to be all flashy, check this one for a simple one: https://visualping.io https://visualping.io 8.- Important: Get feedback from people, I've used this: https://userinput.io/ https://userinput.io/ 9.- Also, forget HN, PH, etc., go after offline people or try more creative ways to reach people directly.
- peterburkimsher 9y ago
  1., 4., and 8. - it's free. There is no pricing, no income to pay for a domain or paid feedback. 2. It will load slower, and not work on all platforms. 3. You're supposed to copy-paste. There's lots of examples in the blog or other links from the headings. 5. and 6. Example video to inspire me? 7. That's useful, thank you. What if the landing page is a subpage? e.g. The blog. 9. My girlfriend already told me I talk too much about it in real life that it's making people not want to talk to me.
  - knight17 9y ago
    By copy, I think he meant the writing of the page, copywriting. Please pursue the below links, you may find them helpful. I also recommend redesigning the site to be little more visually appealing. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11469889 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11469889 https://medium.com/@InVisionApp/10-ux-copywriting-tips-for-designers-966fd3e4f932 https://medium.com/@InVisionApp/10-ux-copywriting-tips-for-d... https://medium.com/talking-microcopy-writing-ux/go-to-guide-for-ux-writers-copywriters-and-content-strategists-3f216e0a0aa0 https://medium.com/talking-microcopy-writing-ux/go-to-guide-...
pc86 9y ago
Speaking only of the Facebook point, I'd bet quite a bit of money no more than 100-200 of your friends have any idea you posted that or ever saw it. It's been 5 years or more since you could be guaranteed your friends would see something you posted on FB.
countryqt30 9y ago
Hi. I've also been learning Chinese and am also a founder for language learning products (though not for Chinese ;)). The first thing I thought about your site: So what? I didn't get what I should use it for. The competition for Chinese language tools is enormous, probably just as big as the resources for learning English. I used Skritter, Anki, hackingchinese, chinesegrammarwiki and a Chrome Plugin that would show the pinyin and translation on hovering a Chinese symbol. I just don't see how your site would help me improve my Chinese, beyond these existing, excellent tools. I hope my honest feedback helps and you appreciate it.
dreamfactored 9y ago
re the cold call/mail outreach - 1. You need to be contacting individuals not generic addresses or gatekeepers ('people buy from people') 2. You need to be explaining the value to them or people like them that they can identify with in terms of shared problems (i.e. in the same line of work), not how it helped you. So for example, if you can get the first customer in any way (maybe a friend or freebie), you can make a case study to send to similar people. 3. You need to contact people with a mix of phone and personalised email 8-10 times until you get a meaningful conversation, which should be in person if possible. Everybody is firefighting and you will be astonished how many come back to you on the 6th time thanking you for persisting and reminding them. You will need to learn about objection handling as well (loads of articles here - http://blog.close.io/manage-any-sales-objection-successfully http://blog.close.io/manage-any-sales-objection-successfully). Sales is very hard work, but getting results is very rewarding.

nesyt 9y ago

I'm not the target market and I don't have any idea how to use your tool. The UI reminds me of old grayscale Mac OS. Salespeople are (usually, I'm stereotyping) 'dressed to impress'. Maybe you should put a tie on your project.

peterburkimsher 9y ago
What colour should the tie be, and where? Seriously. Do you want orange buttons? Specific, actionable feedback, please!
- markfer 9y ago
  Do you want him to write the code for you too? It looks like an app from the 90's. There is zero design. If you want people to use it, you have to sell them on the idea of WHY and HOW they'll benefit. If you aren't willing to do that, then you've already lost.
  - peterburkimsher 9y ago
    I've written about my experience in the blog. Why and how will you benefit? You won't, because you're not trying to learn Chinese. "There's zero design" - you just said "You're ugly". What is ugly? Should I lose weight? Plastic surgery? Wear different clothes? Tell me what to fix and I can try! But insults get nowhere. I also think it's very ironic to criticise my design decision on Hacker News. Is there any "copy" here? Design? It's functional. I like the style of HN. But it sure doesn't follow your "best practices" of design.

sogen 9y ago

Hi Peter, this might sound harsh, but first of all 1.- Get a domain.com to look more professional otherwise if I see "GitHub.io" looks like a code repository Pick a better name for your product. Right now it doesn't mean anything (i.e. dropbox reminds people of storage, submittable.com also sounds like form management, hope you get the idea) 2.- Look at well designed websites (i.e Invision, xero.com, mint.com. stripe.com) and notice the difference. 3.- Copy. There's zero copy. Check mailchimp.com for great voice and tone. 4.- No Pricing info, policy, FAQ, etc. 5.- A short 1-2 minutes explainer Video (optional) 6.- Look at well done explainer videos 7.- The landing page doesn't necessarily have to be all flashy, check this one for a simple one: https://visualping.io https://visualping.io 8.- Important: Get feedback from people, I've used this: https://userinput.io/ https://userinput.io/ 9.- Also, forget HN, PH, etc., go after offline people or try more creative ways to reach people directly.

peterburkimsher 9y ago
1., 4., and 8. - it's free. There is no pricing, no income to pay for a domain or paid feedback. 2. It will load slower, and not work on all platforms. 3. You're supposed to copy-paste. There's lots of examples in the blog or other links from the headings. 5. and 6. Example video to inspire me? 7. That's useful, thank you. What if the landing page is a subpage? e.g. The blog. 9. My girlfriend already told me I talk too much about it in real life that it's making people not want to talk to me.
- knight17 9y ago
  By copy, I think he meant the writing of the page, copywriting. Please pursue the below links, you may find them helpful. I also recommend redesigning the site to be little more visually appealing. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11469889 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11469889 https://medium.com/@InVisionApp/10-ux-copywriting-tips-for-designers-966fd3e4f932 https://medium.com/@InVisionApp/10-ux-copywriting-tips-for-d... https://medium.com/talking-microcopy-writing-ux/go-to-guide-for-ux-writers-copywriters-and-content-strategists-3f216e0a0aa0 https://medium.com/talking-microcopy-writing-ux/go-to-guide-...

pc86 9y ago

Speaking only of the Facebook point, I'd bet quite a bit of money no more than 100-200 of your friends have any idea you posted that or ever saw it. It's been 5 years or more since you could be guaranteed your friends would see something you posted on FB.

countryqt30 9y ago

Hi. I've also been learning Chinese and am also a founder for language learning products (though not for Chinese ;)). The first thing I thought about your site: So what? I didn't get what I should use it for. The competition for Chinese language tools is enormous, probably just as big as the resources for learning English. I used Skritter, Anki, hackingchinese, chinesegrammarwiki and a Chrome Plugin that would show the pinyin and translation on hovering a Chinese symbol. I just don't see how your site would help me improve my Chinese, beyond these existing, excellent tools. I hope my honest feedback helps and you appreciate it.

dreamfactored 9y ago

re the cold call/mail outreach - 1. You need to be contacting individuals not generic addresses or gatekeepers ('people buy from people') 2. You need to be explaining the value to them or people like them that they can identify with in terms of shared problems (i.e. in the same line of work), not how it helped you. So for example, if you can get the first customer in any way (maybe a friend or freebie), you can make a case study to send to similar people. 3. You need to contact people with a mix of phone and personalised email 8-10 times until you get a meaningful conversation, which should be in person if possible. Everybody is firefighting and you will be astonished how many come back to you on the 6th time thanking you for persisting and reminding them. You will need to learn about objection handling as well (loads of articles here - http://blog.close.io/manage-any-sales-objection-successfully http://blog.close.io/manage-any-sales-objection-successfully). Sales is very hard work, but getting results is very rewarding.