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It is the same thing in Canada. "Engineer" is a protected term so that people can trust that when someone calls themselves an engineer, or does "engineering wor

by kejaed 9y ago

It is the same thing in Canada. "Engineer" is a protected term so that people can trust that when someone calls themselves an engineer, or does "engineering work", offering services to the public, they can trust that means something. One difference is that the profession is 'Self Regulating', meaning Professional Engineers Ontario is a non-governmental body made up of Professional Engineers that is trusted by the government to manage the profession. The Quebec version of this organization, Ordre des ingénieurs du Québec, was put under "trusteeship of the provincial government" when the government lost that trust after some infrastructure accidents [0]. The question of what constitutes "engineering work" is well defined in the Professional Engineers Act (Ontario) and would probably cover a lot of what you mentioned as 'science, math, software' not having licensing. So according to Professional Engineers Ontario, some of the types of work that those types of people could produce could require the sign-off of a Professional Engineer if it falls under the definition of "engineering work" by the PEO: [1] Under the Professional Engineers Act, the “practice of professional engineering” means “any act of planning, designing, composing, evaluating, advising, reporting, directing or supervising that requires the application of engineering principles and concerns the safeguarding of life, health, property, economic interests, the public welfare or the environment, or the managing of any such act”. To determine whether you are practising professional engineering, ask yourself three questions: Are you planning, designing, composing, evaluating, advising, reporting, directing or supervising, or managing any of these acts? Are engineering principles required to carry out the act? Does the act concern the safeguarding of life, health, property, economic interests, the public welfare or the environment? As a licensed engineer in Ontario, I'm to display my licence at my place of work. I also keep another image close by to make sure we all remember not to take ourselves too seriously. https://imgur.com/Rd3XFyy https://imgur.com/Rd3XFyy [0] http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-engineers-regulate-themselves-1.3667466 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-engineers-regu... [1] http://www.peo.on.ca/index.php?ci_id=1848&la_id=1 http://www.peo.on.ca/index.php?ci_id=1848&la_id=1

xigency 9y ago
The problem I see with that law, and I believe it is possibly the same issue in the U.S. with many state laws is that, as well defined as it is, if I mix and match the terms from the definition then someone with an economics degree from an engineering school needs a professional license to do their own taxes... "The practice of professional engineering means... any act of evaluating that requires application of engineering principles... and concerns economic interests." It's not quite a bullet-proof concept. I doubt the U.S. Supreme Court is going to take this issue on at the time. But if I had a background in engineering and law and considered these laws in context, they seem a bit stupid. Most B.S. engineering graduates aren't professionally licensed but obviously are qualified to work and designate themselves as some type of engineer, at least on LinkedIn. In any case, it seems the term to be protected is "Professional Engineer" or "Licensed Engineer" and not the generic title itself, and the scope should be limited by specifying what jobs require that license instead of a blanket statement. For example, "all bridges on public roads require work to be certified by a professional licensed engineer." Edit: In the earlier discussion, there was some debate about whether measuring the hypotenuse of a triangle is legal in public in Oregon.
flamedoge 9y ago
ugh windows 7. real engineers use templeOS
aeorgnoieang 9y ago
> any act of planning, designing, composing, evaluating, advising, reporting, directing or supervising that requires the application of engineering principles and concerns the safeguarding of life, health, property, economic interests, the public welfare or the environment, or the managing of any such act In plain language, doesn't this pretty much cover everything? A CFO, or even just an accountant or bookkeeper is probably using things (accounting software) that "requires the application of engineering principles" and "concerns the safeguarding of ... property, economic interests". I guess it's all moot until a lawyer argues, and a court accepts, reasoning along these lines.

by kejaed 9y ago

xigency 9y ago

The problem I see with that law, and I believe it is possibly the same issue in the U.S. with many state laws is that, as well defined as it is, if I mix and match the terms from the definition then someone with an economics degree from an engineering school needs a professional license to do their own taxes... "The practice of professional engineering means... any act of evaluating that requires application of engineering principles... and concerns economic interests." It's not quite a bullet-proof concept. I doubt the U.S. Supreme Court is going to take this issue on at the time. But if I had a background in engineering and law and considered these laws in context, they seem a bit stupid. Most B.S. engineering graduates aren't professionally licensed but obviously are qualified to work and designate themselves as some type of engineer, at least on LinkedIn. In any case, it seems the term to be protected is "Professional Engineer" or "Licensed Engineer" and not the generic title itself, and the scope should be limited by specifying what jobs require that license instead of a blanket statement. For example, "all bridges on public roads require work to be certified by a professional licensed engineer." Edit: In the earlier discussion, there was some debate about whether measuring the hypotenuse of a triangle is legal in public in Oregon.

flamedoge 9y ago

ugh windows 7. real engineers use templeOS

aeorgnoieang 9y ago

> any act of planning, designing, composing, evaluating, advising, reporting, directing or supervising that requires the application of engineering principles and concerns the safeguarding of life, health, property, economic interests, the public welfare or the environment, or the managing of any such act In plain language, doesn't this pretty much cover everything? A CFO, or even just an accountant or bookkeeper is probably using things (accounting software) that "requires the application of engineering principles" and "concerns the safeguarding of ... property, economic interests". I guess it's all moot until a lawyer argues, and a court accepts, reasoning along these lines.