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I'd bet that large holders of gold sell small amounts all the time without the market going nuts and kicking off volatility swings. But I could be wrong. It's

I'd bet that large holders of gold sell small amounts all the time without the market going nuts and kicking off volatility swings. But I could be wrong. It's less the mechanism and the implication that people imply by following whales. Why should a store-of-value market react when someone sells a small amount regardless of their current holdings?

icebraining 9y ago
Who said anything about a small amount?
- FLUX-YOU 9y ago
  The article that I quoted.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    Nope, it said "portion". It didn't say the size of said portion.
    - FLUX-YOU 9y ago
      I don't think replacing "small amount" to "portion" in my posts really changes the point -- that a small amount (relative to the population of Bitcoin investors) of large players (by USD value) can influence the market price. If you want to argue a minimum amount that whales would need to sell to manipulate the markets, that's probably better for the thread than arguing about semantics.
pc86 9y ago
I agree with you but this is an apples to oranges (or perhaps apples to 747s) comparison. The top 1000 holders of gold don't have anywhere near 40% of the market. Not to mention that 40% of the market for BTC is only a few million coins.
- FLUX-YOU 9y ago
  Certainly, but most of us have limited choice about what investments to make -- same for any of the non-1000 that's participating in Bitcoin. It's not apples to 747s as far as their money goes. Which means Bitcoin proponents should really save the store-of-value label for later on down the road when it looks and behaves more like a store-of-value.
- avar 9y ago
  > The top 1000 holders of gold > don't have anywhere near 40% > of the market. You're right, they have a lot more than that. Total world gold reserves are around 30K tons. The US alone has 8K tons, Germany 3K, IMF 3K, Italy 2.5K etc. So just the to 2 holders of Gold have almost 40% of the market, and the top 10 have 80%. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_reserve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_reserve
  - specialp 9y ago
    I guess you didn't read the article you posted as evidence. In that article it says all the gold ever mined is 187,200 tons. Percentage of reserves != percentage of gold market. That would have the USA at ~5% and that is a country of 300+ million people. This is a lot different than 1000 individuals.
    - avar 9y ago
      In the context of this discussion, which is gold holders hypothetically pumping & dumping the market it's pretty much only the big reserve holders that matter. How do you think someone who's gold holdings are 1 kg in a warehouse embedded in motherboards is going to extract that to dump it on the market? Most gold by weight is effectively illiquid, while every Bitcoin is equally liquid. As the source the article uses[1] discusses the breakdown of those 187,200 tons is: * Jewellery: 89,200 tonnes, 47.6% * Private investment: 40,000 tonnes, 21.4% * Official sector: 31,500 tonnes, 16.8% * Other: 26,500 tonnes, 14.2% * Below ground stocks: 57,000 tonnes So around 50% of the number you're quoting is gold still in the ground. To repeat your snarky remark: Did you read the article? I guess counting the official sector and private investment the top 10 official holders "only" have around 30% of the liquid market, which is way more distorted than Bitcoin, and very comparable in this context of a few owners of large liquid assets being able to distort the market. 1. https://www.gold.org/about-gold/gold-supply/gold-mining/how-much-gold-has-been-mined https://www.gold.org/about-gold/gold-supply/gold-mining/how-...

icebraining 9y ago

Who said anything about a small amount?

FLUX-YOU 9y ago
The article that I quoted.
- icebraining 9y ago
  Nope, it said "portion". It didn't say the size of said portion.
  - FLUX-YOU 9y ago
    I don't think replacing "small amount" to "portion" in my posts really changes the point -- that a small amount (relative to the population of Bitcoin investors) of large players (by USD value) can influence the market price. If you want to argue a minimum amount that whales would need to sell to manipulate the markets, that's probably better for the thread than arguing about semantics.

pc86 9y ago

I agree with you but this is an apples to oranges (or perhaps apples to 747s) comparison. The top 1000 holders of gold don't have anywhere near 40% of the market. Not to mention that 40% of the market for BTC is only a few million coins.

FLUX-YOU 9y ago
Certainly, but most of us have limited choice about what investments to make -- same for any of the non-1000 that's participating in Bitcoin. It's not apples to 747s as far as their money goes. Which means Bitcoin proponents should really save the store-of-value label for later on down the road when it looks and behaves more like a store-of-value.
avar 9y ago
> The top 1000 holders of gold > don't have anywhere near 40% > of the market. You're right, they have a lot more than that. Total world gold reserves are around 30K tons. The US alone has 8K tons, Germany 3K, IMF 3K, Italy 2.5K etc. So just the to 2 holders of Gold have almost 40% of the market, and the top 10 have 80%. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_reserve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_reserve
- specialp 9y ago
  I guess you didn't read the article you posted as evidence. In that article it says all the gold ever mined is 187,200 tons. Percentage of reserves != percentage of gold market. That would have the USA at ~5% and that is a country of 300+ million people. This is a lot different than 1000 individuals.
  - avar 9y ago
    In the context of this discussion, which is gold holders hypothetically pumping & dumping the market it's pretty much only the big reserve holders that matter. How do you think someone who's gold holdings are 1 kg in a warehouse embedded in motherboards is going to extract that to dump it on the market? Most gold by weight is effectively illiquid, while every Bitcoin is equally liquid. As the source the article uses[1] discusses the breakdown of those 187,200 tons is: * Jewellery: 89,200 tonnes, 47.6% * Private investment: 40,000 tonnes, 21.4% * Official sector: 31,500 tonnes, 16.8% * Other: 26,500 tonnes, 14.2% * Below ground stocks: 57,000 tonnes So around 50% of the number you're quoting is gold still in the ground. To repeat your snarky remark: Did you read the article? I guess counting the official sector and private investment the top 10 official holders "only" have around 30% of the liquid market, which is way more distorted than Bitcoin, and very comparable in this context of a few owners of large liquid assets being able to distort the market. 1. https://www.gold.org/about-gold/gold-supply/gold-mining/how-much-gold-has-been-mined https://www.gold.org/about-gold/gold-supply/gold-mining/how-...