5 ms·

The liveability of places like Adelaide (and even Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, and Perth) is such an undersold secret. Personally I'm so torn between wanting to

The liveability of places like Adelaide (and even Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, and Perth) is such an undersold secret. Personally I'm so torn between wanting to tell everyone how good we have it and wanting to keep it to ourselves. Melbourne, Adelaide, and Perth are all in the top 10 cities to live in the world. Taking Adelaide for example (1.2 million people), we can live within 10-15 minutes of the CBD in a roomy townhouse for highly-affordable rent, get paid pretty well, be 20 minutes from the beach, 20-60 minutes from four different world-class wine regions, have a great festival culture, delicious local food and wine, and a highly safe and welcoming culture. If you want a larger city you have Melbourne (3.9 million) with a fantastic bar and food culture and endless high-paying work. As a company, and this is somewhat anecdotal, you have high availability of highly-educated workers who are used to working collaboratively and doing whatever's needed to get things done to cover the work of N other people (low population after all).

eng_monkey 9y ago
Too bad the Internet in large parts of those cities belong to the last century.
brad0 9y ago
I have to disagree with the high-paying work statement. I moved from Melbourne to the USA because I hit a salary ceiling. Just over 100k AUD is not that much compared to west coast salaries.
- nopassrecover 9y ago
  Depends on your skills of course, but most dev jobs on seek / I run into and hire for are paying quite a bit more than that, particularly contract. When the AUD was stronger than USD this was an even more compelling argument. However I acknowledge the opportunities of equity returns are far higher in the states.
  - ianhowson 9y ago
    A quick Glassdoor search places 'senior software engineer' in Melbourne at 101k: https://www.glassdoor.com.au/Salaries/melbourne-senior-software-engineer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,9_IM965_KO10,34.htm I agree with the parent commenter. I reached a salary cap around 5 years out of university and wasn't able to break it within Australia.
- kondro 9y ago
  Yeah, mid-to-senior dev jobs in Melbourne and Sydney are going for $150k+ right now.
  - maheart 9y ago
    Do you have a reference? What industry, what technologies, what city? I find established businesses in Melbourne, paying permanent senior software devs $120k-$130k, so I find it hard to believe that mid-level developers are getting paid $150k+, unless they're contractors in a somewhat niche field.
    - dannyw 9y ago
      Sydney, large tech company (100+ engineers), highly competitive. $150k for a senior dev sounds right. This is if you want the top engineers who are getting offers from Google and Facebook.
ianhowson 9y ago
I want to drink your kool-aid. I feel like they are highly livable if you do not need to work for a living. Otherwise: - Adelaide: It's cheap but there are no jobs. - Brisbane: It's cheap(ish) but there are no(t many) jobs. - Perth: It's expensive but there are no jobs. - Sydney: You can't afford it. A one-hour commute is starting to look appealing. - Melbourne: Can't complain. They are lovely cities to visit as a tourist. As a worker, there are much better opportunities out there. Australia tech workers have easy access to working visas in practically every country in the world. Australia will always be there for retirement.
- nopassrecover 9y ago
  I can agree there are more opportunities elsewhere, but ive never met a developer or similar in Aus struggling to do well, and have generally found US devs shocked by our salaries and living costs. On the other hand, if you want career advancement there's something pretty cool to the US idea of "have managed 15 people after 2 years experience" which just doesn't happen here in Aus.
  - ianhowson 9y ago
    As soon as we had a child, we went from "doing OK on two professional salaries" to "losing money even with a modest lifestyle." Outside Aus, we only need one income to support the family. That's a pretty amazing quality of life improvement.
- nailer 9y ago
  You can afford Melbourne? I grew up there but there's no chance of buying a place now.
jacques_chester 9y ago
They may be liveable, but the work on offer is really nothing like the US market. I tell folk that the NYC technology scene is larger than every Australian technology scene combined. The Bay Area's tech scene is large than every Australian scene multiplied. It is a stark difference. In Darwin, I could get a job but not, as my father said, a career. In Perth I could get a career, but it would be in moving from backoffice to backoffice, with a lot of pleading for the job in-between. "Why yes, I have 152 years experience in .NET 72.8.1" Having lived and worked in NYC for a few years, I am pestered by recruiters. Every week I will get one or two emails pitching startups and giants. There is fierce competition for talent -- it's the same position tradies were in during the height of the mining boom. And I like it here. I am not a beach person, I can buy wine, it's a cultural capital and so on and so forth. I love Darwin, I miss it, but it was never going to be a big enough canvas. I miss my family in Perth but again, not enough of a canvas. If NYC isn't enough, you are rapidly running out of places to go.
- nopassrecover 9y ago
  Great analogy and completely agree that we couldn't compete on overall opportunities. Would still argue we have a pretty unbeatable lifestyle though, which it sounds like you're pretty familiar with :-) As far as recruiters, I can't recall a week here without at least one contact, but it sounds like it's even busier in NYC!
  - cylinder 9y ago
    What exactly do you mean by lifestyle? I am in Sydney now and yes, if I was already wealthy and lived near the beach and had lots of free time I would have an amazing lifestyle. But if you are a busy professional, you just won't have the time to really enjoy all of this unless you just don't care about your career much and clock out at 5 on the dot. My weekdays are an absolute blur. I lose one weekend day to chores / errands. So I have one day to actually enjoy my surroundings and I need the weather to co-operate that day too. I agree though Adelaide is under utilized. It could be such a great place if it had a strong economy. Unfortunately it's hampered by lack of vision. I also think Darwin has been a complete lost opportunity. They should lease the whole place to the Singaporean government and see what happens ;)
pm 9y ago
Melbourne is liveable; Adelaide is a retirement village. The population has been stagnant for two decades, and the brain drain continues to worsen. I can count the number of people worth working with on both of my hands. I'm in the US at the moment (Silicon Alley), and it's staggering the funds available compared to Australia. Fairfax County, where I'm currently based, has half the population of Australia. I've always been bullish about the US, but I don't think I can afford to ignore this market once I get started on my own adventures.

eng_monkey 9y ago

Too bad the Internet in large parts of those cities belong to the last century.

brad0 9y ago

I have to disagree with the high-paying work statement. I moved from Melbourne to the USA because I hit a salary ceiling. Just over 100k AUD is not that much compared to west coast salaries.

nopassrecover 9y ago
Depends on your skills of course, but most dev jobs on seek / I run into and hire for are paying quite a bit more than that, particularly contract. When the AUD was stronger than USD this was an even more compelling argument. However I acknowledge the opportunities of equity returns are far higher in the states.
- ianhowson 9y ago
  A quick Glassdoor search places 'senior software engineer' in Melbourne at 101k: https://www.glassdoor.com.au/Salaries/melbourne-senior-software-engineer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,9_IM965_KO10,34.htm I agree with the parent commenter. I reached a salary cap around 5 years out of university and wasn't able to break it within Australia.
kondro 9y ago
Yeah, mid-to-senior dev jobs in Melbourne and Sydney are going for $150k+ right now.
- maheart 9y ago
  Do you have a reference? What industry, what technologies, what city? I find established businesses in Melbourne, paying permanent senior software devs $120k-$130k, so I find it hard to believe that mid-level developers are getting paid $150k+, unless they're contractors in a somewhat niche field.
  - dannyw 9y ago
    Sydney, large tech company (100+ engineers), highly competitive. $150k for a senior dev sounds right. This is if you want the top engineers who are getting offers from Google and Facebook.

ianhowson 9y ago

I want to drink your kool-aid. I feel like they are highly livable if you do not need to work for a living. Otherwise: - Adelaide: It's cheap but there are no jobs. - Brisbane: It's cheap(ish) but there are no(t many) jobs. - Perth: It's expensive but there are no jobs. - Sydney: You can't afford it. A one-hour commute is starting to look appealing. - Melbourne: Can't complain. They are lovely cities to visit as a tourist. As a worker, there are much better opportunities out there. Australia tech workers have easy access to working visas in practically every country in the world. Australia will always be there for retirement.

nopassrecover 9y ago
I can agree there are more opportunities elsewhere, but ive never met a developer or similar in Aus struggling to do well, and have generally found US devs shocked by our salaries and living costs. On the other hand, if you want career advancement there's something pretty cool to the US idea of "have managed 15 people after 2 years experience" which just doesn't happen here in Aus.
- ianhowson 9y ago
  As soon as we had a child, we went from "doing OK on two professional salaries" to "losing money even with a modest lifestyle." Outside Aus, we only need one income to support the family. That's a pretty amazing quality of life improvement.
nailer 9y ago
You can afford Melbourne? I grew up there but there's no chance of buying a place now.

jacques_chester 9y ago

They may be liveable, but the work on offer is really nothing like the US market. I tell folk that the NYC technology scene is larger than every Australian technology scene combined. The Bay Area's tech scene is large than every Australian scene multiplied. It is a stark difference. In Darwin, I could get a job but not, as my father said, a career. In Perth I could get a career, but it would be in moving from backoffice to backoffice, with a lot of pleading for the job in-between. "Why yes, I have 152 years experience in .NET 72.8.1" Having lived and worked in NYC for a few years, I am pestered by recruiters. Every week I will get one or two emails pitching startups and giants. There is fierce competition for talent -- it's the same position tradies were in during the height of the mining boom. And I like it here. I am not a beach person, I can buy wine, it's a cultural capital and so on and so forth. I love Darwin, I miss it, but it was never going to be a big enough canvas. I miss my family in Perth but again, not enough of a canvas. If NYC isn't enough, you are rapidly running out of places to go.

nopassrecover 9y ago
Great analogy and completely agree that we couldn't compete on overall opportunities. Would still argue we have a pretty unbeatable lifestyle though, which it sounds like you're pretty familiar with :-) As far as recruiters, I can't recall a week here without at least one contact, but it sounds like it's even busier in NYC!
- cylinder 9y ago
  What exactly do you mean by lifestyle? I am in Sydney now and yes, if I was already wealthy and lived near the beach and had lots of free time I would have an amazing lifestyle. But if you are a busy professional, you just won't have the time to really enjoy all of this unless you just don't care about your career much and clock out at 5 on the dot. My weekdays are an absolute blur. I lose one weekend day to chores / errands. So I have one day to actually enjoy my surroundings and I need the weather to co-operate that day too. I agree though Adelaide is under utilized. It could be such a great place if it had a strong economy. Unfortunately it's hampered by lack of vision. I also think Darwin has been a complete lost opportunity. They should lease the whole place to the Singaporean government and see what happens ;)

pm 9y ago

Melbourne is liveable; Adelaide is a retirement village. The population has been stagnant for two decades, and the brain drain continues to worsen. I can count the number of people worth working with on both of my hands. I'm in the US at the moment (Silicon Alley), and it's staggering the funds available compared to Australia. Fairfax County, where I'm currently based, has half the population of Australia. I've always been bullish about the US, but I don't think I can afford to ignore this market once I get started on my own adventures.