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Good luck with that. I would advise against it having been stationed in Japan, in Yokosuka, on the first Nuclear vessel forward deployed ever. It's an awesome p

Good luck with that. I would advise against it having been stationed in Japan, in Yokosuka, on the first Nuclear vessel forward deployed ever. It's an awesome place for tourists but it will never be a place that anyone who is not 100% Japanese can call home. You will always be an outside over there.

pwim 9y ago
Having lived here a decade, I consider it my home. While I’ll never be considered Japanese, I do find acceptance in society here. Japanese society classifies people as insiders or outsiders. The key I’ve found is to become active in some community where you can become an insider. For instance, I’ve been active in the Japanese Ruby community where I’ve found acceptance.
- mikekchar 9y ago
  Also moved here 10 years ago (though spent 2 years in the UK in the middle). I'm married to a Japanese woman and her family accepts me completely. My mother in law refers to me as her son and introduces me that way to people who don't know me. Some people are surprised, but people treat me exactly the same way they treat everybody else. In my neighbourhood, I know pretty much everybody (mainly because I work from home and go for many walks). People call out to chat with me and I'm involved with community groups, etc. One time one of the young girls in the neighbourhood had a friend over and the friend said "Hello" to me in English. The girl said, "Don't bother. He's Japanese." She had no idea that I was Canadian. The inside/outside issue is really the key. Everybody is an outsider in some context. Understanding your place and whether or not you are inside or outside is critical. If you want to be inside, you also need to follow the inside rules -- even if you don't agree with them. In my experience, this is where people get into troubles. If you say, "Hey, I don't agree with that, I don't want to do it" the response is universally, "OK. There is absolutely no problem with that. You are outside." In short, there is no problem getting inside, but you actually need to want to be inside -- not one foot in and one foot out. If you want to be accepted as Japanese, then you have to be Japanese. Most immigrants do not actually want this for some reason.
  - literallycancer 9y ago
    >The inside/outside issue is really the key. Everybody is an outsider in some context. Understanding your place and whether or not you are inside or outside is critical. If you want to be inside, you also need to follow the inside rules -- even if you don't agree with them. In my experience, this is where people get into troubles. If you say, "Hey, I don't agree with that, I don't want to do it" the response is universally, "OK. There is absolutely no problem with that. You are outside." >In short, there is no problem getting inside, but you actually need to want to be inside -- not one foot in and one foot out. If you want to be accepted as Japanese, then you have to be Japanese. Most immigrants do not actually want this for some reason. This is interesting, as it contrasts with the fact that I can disagree with the majority about how things should be done in my own country (and act accordingly) without risking the insider status.
    - mikekchar 9y ago
      Yeah, I think that's a really apt description of the culture clash that happens. If you go into it with that expectation, you'll get absolutely steam rolled. I mean, you can still disagree, but you have to pick and choose your venues for talking about it. It's quite a famous saying that Japanese people have 3 faces: one that you present to the general public, one that you present to your friends and family and one that you keep completely to yourself. If you can't/won't do that then you will never fit in. It's worth noting that there are some Japanese people who have difficulty and they also don't fit in. One thing I should point out is that "inside/outside" is always relative. It's not like people classify you as being Japanese/not Japanese most of the time. If you work for a company, then you are "inside" in the company -- as long as you follow the rules: going to drinking parties, showing up on time in the morning, dressing properly, staying late, etc, etc. You are also "inside" in your family -- again as long as you follow the rules: showing up for important events like Obon, Shougatsu, etc; paying deference to the head of the family; etc, etc. You are also "inside" in your community -- again rules: paying the "community fee", sorting your garbage properly, doing your turn at cleaning the community, participating in the community festival, etc, etc. So when people see me, they don't see "Foreigner Mike"; they see Mike who works at blah, is in blah family, lives in blah community, is a member of blah sports club, is a regular at blah izakaya... and tangentially -- came originally from Canada. But a lot of foreigners don't really understand that: they have a contract position at some company, don't become a fixture in that company, don't have a family, don't get involved in the community (and especially actively avoid paying fees, or volunteering, etc) -- so the only thing left is "Foreigner Joe".
fiblye 9y ago
Of course soldiers are considered outsiders. I doubt people stationed in Korea or Germany will be going on about how they felt like true locals either. The biggest hurdle is the language barrier. People treat you like kids when they think you're just a typical tourist, but once you're past that hurdle, it quickly gets to the, "How can you not know this basic thing? All of us Japanese know it" point. At that point, you're the one reminding them that you're a foreigner.
- rdl 9y ago
  Actually the US Forces-Germany relationship is pretty strong, and during the Cold War was even stronger. There were a lot of the permanent party at places like Landstuhl who were fairly embedded in off post activities.
alphaalpha101 9y ago
I'll consider that next time I'm on a nuclear submarine.
mistermann 9y ago
Why can't you be an outsider and still consider Japan home? To me, the mild (at least in bigger cities) racism and exclusion you experience is more than made up for the politeness and social order one enjoys in exchange.

pwim 9y ago

Having lived here a decade, I consider it my home. While I’ll never be considered Japanese, I do find acceptance in society here. Japanese society classifies people as insiders or outsiders. The key I’ve found is to become active in some community where you can become an insider. For instance, I’ve been active in the Japanese Ruby community where I’ve found acceptance.

mikekchar 9y ago
Also moved here 10 years ago (though spent 2 years in the UK in the middle). I'm married to a Japanese woman and her family accepts me completely. My mother in law refers to me as her son and introduces me that way to people who don't know me. Some people are surprised, but people treat me exactly the same way they treat everybody else. In my neighbourhood, I know pretty much everybody (mainly because I work from home and go for many walks). People call out to chat with me and I'm involved with community groups, etc. One time one of the young girls in the neighbourhood had a friend over and the friend said "Hello" to me in English. The girl said, "Don't bother. He's Japanese." She had no idea that I was Canadian. The inside/outside issue is really the key. Everybody is an outsider in some context. Understanding your place and whether or not you are inside or outside is critical. If you want to be inside, you also need to follow the inside rules -- even if you don't agree with them. In my experience, this is where people get into troubles. If you say, "Hey, I don't agree with that, I don't want to do it" the response is universally, "OK. There is absolutely no problem with that. You are outside." In short, there is no problem getting inside, but you actually need to want to be inside -- not one foot in and one foot out. If you want to be accepted as Japanese, then you have to be Japanese. Most immigrants do not actually want this for some reason.
- literallycancer 9y ago
  >The inside/outside issue is really the key. Everybody is an outsider in some context. Understanding your place and whether or not you are inside or outside is critical. If you want to be inside, you also need to follow the inside rules -- even if you don't agree with them. In my experience, this is where people get into troubles. If you say, "Hey, I don't agree with that, I don't want to do it" the response is universally, "OK. There is absolutely no problem with that. You are outside." >In short, there is no problem getting inside, but you actually need to want to be inside -- not one foot in and one foot out. If you want to be accepted as Japanese, then you have to be Japanese. Most immigrants do not actually want this for some reason. This is interesting, as it contrasts with the fact that I can disagree with the majority about how things should be done in my own country (and act accordingly) without risking the insider status.
  - mikekchar 9y ago
    Yeah, I think that's a really apt description of the culture clash that happens. If you go into it with that expectation, you'll get absolutely steam rolled. I mean, you can still disagree, but you have to pick and choose your venues for talking about it. It's quite a famous saying that Japanese people have 3 faces: one that you present to the general public, one that you present to your friends and family and one that you keep completely to yourself. If you can't/won't do that then you will never fit in. It's worth noting that there are some Japanese people who have difficulty and they also don't fit in. One thing I should point out is that "inside/outside" is always relative. It's not like people classify you as being Japanese/not Japanese most of the time. If you work for a company, then you are "inside" in the company -- as long as you follow the rules: going to drinking parties, showing up on time in the morning, dressing properly, staying late, etc, etc. You are also "inside" in your family -- again as long as you follow the rules: showing up for important events like Obon, Shougatsu, etc; paying deference to the head of the family; etc, etc. You are also "inside" in your community -- again rules: paying the "community fee", sorting your garbage properly, doing your turn at cleaning the community, participating in the community festival, etc, etc. So when people see me, they don't see "Foreigner Mike"; they see Mike who works at blah, is in blah family, lives in blah community, is a member of blah sports club, is a regular at blah izakaya... and tangentially -- came originally from Canada. But a lot of foreigners don't really understand that: they have a contract position at some company, don't become a fixture in that company, don't have a family, don't get involved in the community (and especially actively avoid paying fees, or volunteering, etc) -- so the only thing left is "Foreigner Joe".

fiblye 9y ago

Of course soldiers are considered outsiders. I doubt people stationed in Korea or Germany will be going on about how they felt like true locals either. The biggest hurdle is the language barrier. People treat you like kids when they think you're just a typical tourist, but once you're past that hurdle, it quickly gets to the, "How can you not know this basic thing? All of us Japanese know it" point. At that point, you're the one reminding them that you're a foreigner.

rdl 9y ago
Actually the US Forces-Germany relationship is pretty strong, and during the Cold War was even stronger. There were a lot of the permanent party at places like Landstuhl who were fairly embedded in off post activities.

alphaalpha101 9y ago

I'll consider that next time I'm on a nuclear submarine.

mistermann 9y ago

Why can't you be an outsider and still consider Japan home? To me, the mild (at least in bigger cities) racism and exclusion you experience is more than made up for the politeness and social order one enjoys in exchange.