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This is quite something because traditionally Japanese culture has been fairly close to foreigners and probably for a good reason. Japanese people are likely th

This is quite something because traditionally Japanese culture has been fairly close to foreigners and probably for a good reason. Japanese people are likely the most courteous and honest people in the world. You can leave your luggage in the middle of the road and come back to find it still there. These folks have little experience with foreigners and often even western culture would be too harsh and rowdy for them. Some people are even afraid of impact of foreigners coming down during Olympics. Overall, this is interesting times when world's supposedly most open country like USA is closing borders to foreign talent while supposedly most closed country opens up their border for the same.

matt4077 9y ago
That's quite a roundabout way of saying "foreigners are criminals"... Seriously, I'm extremely deferential to the local customs when I'm abroad. But I felt being pushed into a subway car during rush hour to be quite "harsh and rowdy". Not to mentioned the drunk guys who spit in my faced an laughed.
- lovemenot 9y ago
  Your experience of being spat at in Japan was utterly unrepresentative. In twenty years I never seen, nor can even imagine seeing, such a scenario. Just maybe in Roppongi on a Saturday night. As for the subway trains. It's certainly not rowdy. Uncomfortable, sure, but it's as ordered as possible under the logisical constraints present.
- brogrammernot 9y ago
  I spent two and half weeks in Japan recently, didn’t have a single issue. Not trying to be confrontational but did you do any research before you went to Japan? Online it says to avoid public transit during rush hour. When I checked into my hotel the front desk even went out of their way to tell me which trains to avoid during rush hour because of how crazy it is. 3.7M people pass through Shinjuku Station daily. It’s going to be a bit crazy. @OP, the narrative you’re painting is also quite exaggerated. Westerners are going to have to learn and respect the traditions/culture of Japan but with how incredibly hard the people work there it’s a great place to start a company.
- kyleblarson 9y ago
  Over the last 15 years I've spent roughly 6 months in Japan, and have never encountered anything other than respect and courtesy, especially if you make an effort to speak the language and respect the cultural customs. I've spent roughly the same amount of time in San Francisco in those years, and I've seen hundreds of cars with shattered windows, dozens of people shitting on the sidewalk, been harassed by crazy people on Market at least 10 times, almost stepped on needles in parks and on sidewalks, etc.
  - GuiA 9y ago
    Consider that San Francisco is more of an extreme than Tokyo. I’ve lived in a bunch of “world” cities, including London, Berlin, Paris, SF/Bay Area, Tokyo, and the outlier there is more San Francisco than Tokyo. The only times (yes, plural) I’ve ever had people die of gunshots on the pavement within 1 block of my house in my life have been in the Bay Area.
- Grue3 9y ago
  You shouldn't be downvoted. Tokyoites will definitely elbow you in the face during rush hour with no remorse at all. I guess getting to work on time is more important than politeness.
GuiA 9y ago
This is pure exoticization. Japan is fairly safe in certain ways - you’re not at risk of getting shot like in the US, sure. But the police and justice system is very dysfunctional, with crime statistics being under reported, and many murder cases being tossed aside as “suicides” or “heart attacks”. Even without taking this into account, crime rates in Japan are comparable to those of safe European countries. And this is not even touching the HUGE pervasive problem that Japan has with sexual assault. If you’re a woman living in Tokyo, you most likely have been sexually assaulted in your life, likely more than once, and likely by a coworker or in public transportation. Japan is great in certain ways, and still very backwards in many others. But it is not some magical country where there is magically no crime and people are the most honest in the world because of some mysterious Japan only gene. On many metrics, Japan is aligned with the most developed Western European countries (including the famously quoted “fertility rate”, which is actually the same as Austria or Germany). If anything, it is the US that is an anomaly in many ways (crime rate, financial inequality, drug use, etc).
- sasas 9y ago
  Do you have any references for the above claims?
  - GuiA 9y ago
    For homicide/fertility/etc rates, a simple google search will give you numbers. For sexual assault/corruption/etc, it’s honestly common knowledge at this point. Googling “Japan underreported crime” will give you plenty of results from a variety of sources. Additional insight comes from having a few close Japanese female friends who have opened up to me over the years. If you’re trying to cure yourself of the “Japan is a magical place” myth, I highly recommend “Making Common Sense of Japan”, written by an economist. It’s from 1989, so the data is dated, but most of it still holds to day, and the analytical frameworks it builds are just as relevant. There was a blog post written on the subject that I saw on HN a long time ago that I will try to dig up, and will update if I find it.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
philliphaydon 9y ago
I would rank Taiwan higher than Japan. And in terms of leaving things without them being stolen, singapore higher than japan. Tokyo people are very fake in their courteousness. Japan is only amazing when you leave Tokyo.

matt4077 9y ago

That's quite a roundabout way of saying "foreigners are criminals"... Seriously, I'm extremely deferential to the local customs when I'm abroad. But I felt being pushed into a subway car during rush hour to be quite "harsh and rowdy". Not to mentioned the drunk guys who spit in my faced an laughed.

lovemenot 9y ago
Your experience of being spat at in Japan was utterly unrepresentative. In twenty years I never seen, nor can even imagine seeing, such a scenario. Just maybe in Roppongi on a Saturday night. As for the subway trains. It's certainly not rowdy. Uncomfortable, sure, but it's as ordered as possible under the logisical constraints present.
brogrammernot 9y ago
I spent two and half weeks in Japan recently, didn’t have a single issue. Not trying to be confrontational but did you do any research before you went to Japan? Online it says to avoid public transit during rush hour. When I checked into my hotel the front desk even went out of their way to tell me which trains to avoid during rush hour because of how crazy it is. 3.7M people pass through Shinjuku Station daily. It’s going to be a bit crazy. @OP, the narrative you’re painting is also quite exaggerated. Westerners are going to have to learn and respect the traditions/culture of Japan but with how incredibly hard the people work there it’s a great place to start a company.
kyleblarson 9y ago
Over the last 15 years I've spent roughly 6 months in Japan, and have never encountered anything other than respect and courtesy, especially if you make an effort to speak the language and respect the cultural customs. I've spent roughly the same amount of time in San Francisco in those years, and I've seen hundreds of cars with shattered windows, dozens of people shitting on the sidewalk, been harassed by crazy people on Market at least 10 times, almost stepped on needles in parks and on sidewalks, etc.
- GuiA 9y ago
  Consider that San Francisco is more of an extreme than Tokyo. I’ve lived in a bunch of “world” cities, including London, Berlin, Paris, SF/Bay Area, Tokyo, and the outlier there is more San Francisco than Tokyo. The only times (yes, plural) I’ve ever had people die of gunshots on the pavement within 1 block of my house in my life have been in the Bay Area.
Grue3 9y ago
You shouldn't be downvoted. Tokyoites will definitely elbow you in the face during rush hour with no remorse at all. I guess getting to work on time is more important than politeness.

GuiA 9y ago

This is pure exoticization. Japan is fairly safe in certain ways - you’re not at risk of getting shot like in the US, sure. But the police and justice system is very dysfunctional, with crime statistics being under reported, and many murder cases being tossed aside as “suicides” or “heart attacks”. Even without taking this into account, crime rates in Japan are comparable to those of safe European countries. And this is not even touching the HUGE pervasive problem that Japan has with sexual assault. If you’re a woman living in Tokyo, you most likely have been sexually assaulted in your life, likely more than once, and likely by a coworker or in public transportation. Japan is great in certain ways, and still very backwards in many others. But it is not some magical country where there is magically no crime and people are the most honest in the world because of some mysterious Japan only gene. On many metrics, Japan is aligned with the most developed Western European countries (including the famously quoted “fertility rate”, which is actually the same as Austria or Germany). If anything, it is the US that is an anomaly in many ways (crime rate, financial inequality, drug use, etc).

sasas 9y ago
Do you have any references for the above claims?
- GuiA 9y ago
  For homicide/fertility/etc rates, a simple google search will give you numbers. For sexual assault/corruption/etc, it’s honestly common knowledge at this point. Googling “Japan underreported crime” will give you plenty of results from a variety of sources. Additional insight comes from having a few close Japanese female friends who have opened up to me over the years. If you’re trying to cure yourself of the “Japan is a magical place” myth, I highly recommend “Making Common Sense of Japan”, written by an economist. It’s from 1989, so the data is dated, but most of it still holds to day, and the analytical frameworks it builds are just as relevant. There was a blog post written on the subject that I saw on HN a long time ago that I will try to dig up, and will update if I find it.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]

philliphaydon 9y ago

I would rank Taiwan higher than Japan. And in terms of leaving things without them being stolen, singapore higher than japan. Tokyo people are very fake in their courteousness. Japan is only amazing when you leave Tokyo.