10 ms·

IDK. My logical brain says "it's not 1950 anymore; the PR blow-black has the potential to be truly brutal." My emotional brain says "This is horridly objectif

IDK. My logical brain says "it's not 1950 anymore; the PR blow-black has the potential to be truly brutal." My emotional brain says "This is horridly objectifying and super awkward."

AdeptusAquinas 9y ago
Both ways too. When I see this sort of thing at a conference party or vendor thing, I think 'what do the organisers think we are, just rabid animals?' Its demeaning for all concerned
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- notyourday 9y ago
  Oh you mean booth bunnies? It works all every time it is tried if a booth bunny knows what she is doing. That's why it keeps happening. When my wife shows up as a part of the sales team the company always sells out of the product that they bring.
User23 9y ago
Why should these women be denied the opportunity to do this job, supposing they want to do it?
- jerf 9y ago
  That's not the problem anyone is having with this.
  - teirce 9y ago
    Then what is?
    - jerf 9y ago
      This may help you understand what people are saying about this and why they're upset: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15872605 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15872605
  - ImSkeptical 9y ago
    It seems like you're suggesting women should be free to do this, but men should be shamed for asking women to do it - which seems like a weird position to hold. I can imagine some harm comes from this - e.g. an employee is mistaken for a model, or perhaps an employee is never mistaken for a model, but the magnitude of the harm doesn't seem so severe, and seems comparable to the benefit - the party is more fun. I know why people have an intuitive dislike for this, it calls to mind paying for sex, sounds pathetic, and feels possibly misogynistic, but logically, I can't defend any of those positions myself.
    - heartbreak 9y ago
      Nope. S/He’s saying women are free to work as models at a party, but employers shouldn’t hire women to be models at company events.
      - ImSkeptical 9y ago
        So it's only fine if a private individual hires models for their party?
        heartbreak 9y ago
        That’s not what I said.
        ImSkeptical 9y ago
        You wrote that women should be free to work as models at a party, but that companies shouldn't employ them - what else does that mean if not that women should be models at private parties only? Instead of requiring me to guess what you mean, why not state it plainly?
        heartbreak 9y ago
        The set of all party throwers is not composed of private individuals plus employers. But now you’ve changed it to private parties, which would seem to include parties thrown by privately held companies. Maybe you should start by getting your terminology straight. My point is that employees should not be subjected to employers hiring models to attend company events.
jasode 9y ago
>"it's not 1950 anymore; the PR blow-black has the potential to be truly brutal." For that particular party, there definitely wasn't blowback because the next morning, everybody talked about how amazing it was. I think it caught everyone off guard because it was unexpected and it gave attendees happy memories. (Yes, maybe the attendees should have been morally outraged but I can only report how they actually responded and at that time, they thought it was a huge hit.) It's been 17 years so maybe that company doesn't hire party models anymore. >"This is horridly objectifying and super awkward." That's a valid opinion but just to paint the picture better, the women were not dressed up as "Playboy bunnies". They were wearing regular shorts and a themed tshirt showing no cleavage. The interactions with the models would be similar to a kid interacting with Mickey Mouse at Disney. Also, there probably were male models on roller skates as well but I don't remember them for obvious reasons.
- twobyfour 9y ago
  Everyone? I take it there were no women on your team?
- soufron 9y ago
  Probably, but SV engineers are not kids, and these women are not entertaining children in mickey costumes. Seeing so many people defending this practice is really worrisome with regards to the lack of morals in SV.
- goldenkey 9y ago
  Sounds amazing. Wish my company treated us to this kind of delight!
- throwawayjava 9y ago
  >>"it's not 1950 anymore; the PR blow-black has the potential to be truly brutal." > For that particular party, there definitely wasn't blowback PR is bigger than just internal opinion. Witness: this article. > The interactions with the models would be similar to a kid interacting with Mickey Mouse at Disney Oy > the women were not dressed up as "Playboy bunnies". They were wearing regular shorts and a themed tshirt showing no cleavage... Also, there probably were male models on roller skates as well but I don't remember them for obvious reasons. At least we all eventually agree that the obvious is obvious.
Helmet 9y ago
My logical brain goes: I bet these women are getting paid a pretty penny to go to some stupid party and mingle with the patrons. Probably get drinks and food on the house too. Lucky bastards!
- subway 9y ago
  Say what now? Why would you think they're being paid a pretty penny? Odds are they're doing it to scrape by, and would much prefer having the evening to spend with their friends and family rather than having to put on a charade.
  - Helmet 9y ago
    No one is forcing them to do it. Anyone would much prefer to have an evening with their friends or family. But if they need the money, then it's a job. And it's probably a better job than most jobs.
    - lotsofcows 9y ago
      Ahhh, the American Dream! "No one is forcing them to do it." There's a plethora of well paid jobs out there that they could be doing instead but, for reasons unknown, they prefer to be under-dressed roller skating companions.
  - notyourday 9y ago
    Well, on a low end they are making about $25/hour after agency fees. On a high end they are walking away with a few thousand dollars. On a really high end they just made your yearly salary in a day - there was if I recall correctly a bank in Russia that flew a dozen of currently reasonably well known models for its New Year's party.
- Mountain_Skies 9y ago
  There seems to be a fine line between slut shaming women for not conforming to some moral majority code of behavior and actual concern about objectification. Some seem to straddle the line trying to do both while claiming to only be standing on the good side.
firstplacelast 9y ago
It’s kind of sexist too. I would like pretty male models to look at please.
- Bob2019 9y ago
  There are good biological reasons why there isn't a popular Playgirl magazine. That is similar.
- teirce 9y ago
  From the article: > At this year’s holiday parties, however, there’ll be a surprising influx of attractive women, and a few pretty men, mingling with the engineers. They’re being paid to.

IDK. My logical brain says "it's not 1950 anymore; the PR blow-black has the potential to be truly brutal." My emotional brain says "This is horridly objectifying and super awkward."

AdeptusAquinas 9y ago

Both ways too. When I see this sort of thing at a conference party or vendor thing, I think 'what do the organisers think we are, just rabid animals?' Its demeaning for all concerned

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
notyourday 9y ago
Oh you mean booth bunnies? It works all every time it is tried if a booth bunny knows what she is doing. That's why it keeps happening. When my wife shows up as a part of the sales team the company always sells out of the product that they bring.

User23 9y ago

Why should these women be denied the opportunity to do this job, supposing they want to do it?

jerf 9y ago
That's not the problem anyone is having with this.
- teirce 9y ago
  Then what is?
  - jerf 9y ago
    This may help you understand what people are saying about this and why they're upset: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15872605 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15872605
- ImSkeptical 9y ago
  It seems like you're suggesting women should be free to do this, but men should be shamed for asking women to do it - which seems like a weird position to hold. I can imagine some harm comes from this - e.g. an employee is mistaken for a model, or perhaps an employee is never mistaken for a model, but the magnitude of the harm doesn't seem so severe, and seems comparable to the benefit - the party is more fun. I know why people have an intuitive dislike for this, it calls to mind paying for sex, sounds pathetic, and feels possibly misogynistic, but logically, I can't defend any of those positions myself.
  - heartbreak 9y ago
    Nope. S/He’s saying women are free to work as models at a party, but employers shouldn’t hire women to be models at company events.
    - ImSkeptical 9y ago
      So it's only fine if a private individual hires models for their party?
      - heartbreak 9y ago
        That’s not what I said.
        ImSkeptical 9y ago
        You wrote that women should be free to work as models at a party, but that companies shouldn't employ them - what else does that mean if not that women should be models at private parties only? Instead of requiring me to guess what you mean, why not state it plainly?
        heartbreak 9y ago
        The set of all party throwers is not composed of private individuals plus employers. But now you’ve changed it to private parties, which would seem to include parties thrown by privately held companies. Maybe you should start by getting your terminology straight. My point is that employees should not be subjected to employers hiring models to attend company events.

jasode 9y ago

>"it's not 1950 anymore; the PR blow-black has the potential to be truly brutal." For that particular party, there definitely wasn't blowback because the next morning, everybody talked about how amazing it was. I think it caught everyone off guard because it was unexpected and it gave attendees happy memories. (Yes, maybe the attendees should have been morally outraged but I can only report how they actually responded and at that time, they thought it was a huge hit.) It's been 17 years so maybe that company doesn't hire party models anymore. >"This is horridly objectifying and super awkward." That's a valid opinion but just to paint the picture better, the women were not dressed up as "Playboy bunnies". They were wearing regular shorts and a themed tshirt showing no cleavage. The interactions with the models would be similar to a kid interacting with Mickey Mouse at Disney. Also, there probably were male models on roller skates as well but I don't remember them for obvious reasons.

twobyfour 9y ago
Everyone? I take it there were no women on your team?
soufron 9y ago
Probably, but SV engineers are not kids, and these women are not entertaining children in mickey costumes. Seeing so many people defending this practice is really worrisome with regards to the lack of morals in SV.
goldenkey 9y ago
Sounds amazing. Wish my company treated us to this kind of delight!
throwawayjava 9y ago
>>"it's not 1950 anymore; the PR blow-black has the potential to be truly brutal." > For that particular party, there definitely wasn't blowback PR is bigger than just internal opinion. Witness: this article. > The interactions with the models would be similar to a kid interacting with Mickey Mouse at Disney Oy > the women were not dressed up as "Playboy bunnies". They were wearing regular shorts and a themed tshirt showing no cleavage... Also, there probably were male models on roller skates as well but I don't remember them for obvious reasons. At least we all eventually agree that the obvious is obvious.

Helmet 9y ago

My logical brain goes: I bet these women are getting paid a pretty penny to go to some stupid party and mingle with the patrons. Probably get drinks and food on the house too. Lucky bastards!

subway 9y ago
Say what now? Why would you think they're being paid a pretty penny? Odds are they're doing it to scrape by, and would much prefer having the evening to spend with their friends and family rather than having to put on a charade.
- Helmet 9y ago
  No one is forcing them to do it. Anyone would much prefer to have an evening with their friends or family. But if they need the money, then it's a job. And it's probably a better job than most jobs.
  - lotsofcows 9y ago
    Ahhh, the American Dream! "No one is forcing them to do it." There's a plethora of well paid jobs out there that they could be doing instead but, for reasons unknown, they prefer to be under-dressed roller skating companions.
- notyourday 9y ago
  Well, on a low end they are making about $25/hour after agency fees. On a high end they are walking away with a few thousand dollars. On a really high end they just made your yearly salary in a day - there was if I recall correctly a bank in Russia that flew a dozen of currently reasonably well known models for its New Year's party.
Mountain_Skies 9y ago
There seems to be a fine line between slut shaming women for not conforming to some moral majority code of behavior and actual concern about objectification. Some seem to straddle the line trying to do both while claiming to only be standing on the good side.

firstplacelast 9y ago

It’s kind of sexist too. I would like pretty male models to look at please.

Bob2019 9y ago
There are good biological reasons why there isn't a popular Playgirl magazine. That is similar.
teirce 9y ago
From the article: > At this year’s holiday parties, however, there’ll be a surprising influx of attractive women, and a few pretty men, mingling with the engineers. They’re being paid to.