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Seeing young americans accept communism is terrifying to me. They are showing the same level of historical ignorance that Bernie Sanders showed when he claimed

Seeing young americans accept communism is terrifying to me. They are showing the same level of historical ignorance that Bernie Sanders showed when he claimed the american dream was more alive in plces like Venezuela. It really sounds like young Americans haven’t seen enough of history not to take the fruits of capitalism for granted. It’s like they have forgotten how bad things can get if you let political ideologies like communism run amok. It’s even alive here on HN with a commenter claiming the life of a Japanese Salaryman is somehow equivalent to a communist distopia. You really need to be judicious when deciding to change a system that works as well as the US does for its people. There are plenty of injustices and grievances that we must address but It’s truly hartbreaking seeing young amricans turning on the ideals that made America into the great country it is today.

ameister14 9y ago
>It’s like they have forgotten how bad things can get if you let political ideologies like communism run amok. They haven't forgotten. They grew up in a world where the US was hegemon.
awinder 9y ago
To play devil's advocate, young americans have also seen the worst of capitalism run amok in America, coupled with tax policies that are skewed towards age cohorts differently. I'm not saying things would be better under socialism, but people really need to understand that A) the current system has failed young people and B) it's on capitalism to either correct these failings or people will seek alternatives. This just boils down to basic human psychology, adapt or die.
ivcha 9y ago
It seems to me you presented zero arguments why socialism is bad and capitalism is good (and why people should keep believing in it).
- cjalmeida 9y ago
  To quote some famous developer, talk is cheap. I recommend you talking to your average Joe (or Pablo, or Petr) living (or that lived) in places like Venezuela, Cuba, the hole Eastern Bloc, Albania, Cambodia, Mao's China, or any sub Sahara African state (except Botswana and RSA) that actively pursued the Marxist dream.
  - AstralStorm 9y ago
    These have a thing in common. They were poor when communist and still poor when capitalist. (Except China, but there the problem was mismanagement and embargoes.)
danschumann 9y ago
I don't think they even know what communism means. They just want everyone to be taken care of. Children want to be taken care of by their parents. Communism is when government seizes control of means of production. There are not many businesses that would be better ran by government than by private citizens with skin in the game. Only institutions where profit motive is not helpful, like prisons, should be run by government. I am against private prisons, but for private almost everything else.
- frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
  >Only institutions where profit motive is not helpful, like prisons, should be run by government. I am against private prisons, but for private almost everything else. In telecom we've got companies screwing over their customers in a myriad of ways, in gaming we've got companies turning their games in slot machines for kids, in medicine we've got $1000 pills that cost $2 in India, in tech we've got the indiscriminate gathering of every piece of consumer information we can gather (and subsequent lack of security placed on it), agriculture's struggling with dicamba drift and so on. It doesn't seem clear to me that you can draw a strict line between the profit-seeking behavior of those private enterprises and that of a private enterprise like prisons.
  - danschumann 9y ago
    Yea, at times, I've thought it might be good if the internet was more like a utility. Perhaps there could be a public option, without `seizing means of production` of existing companies, ala communism. Prescription stuff is probably one of the most screwed up parts of our country. The fact that weed is illegal because big pharma wants it to be. I don't think the situation would be much improved if the government siezed control of pharma companies, but it would be improved if pharma companies no longer had control of the government.
    - frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
      >I don't think the situation would be much improved if the government siezed control of pharma companies, but it would be improved if pharma companies no longer had control of the government. Seeking control of the government is a side effect of profit motive, it's a symptom of capitalism. Seizing the means of big pharma seems totally fine to me, it's a public good and our world where the amount spent researching a cure is proportional to how much money we can milk out of those afflicted seems a lot worse to me than a world where the amount spent researching a cure is proportional to the misery of those afflicted.
mc32 9y ago
Your people are idealists. I'd like to see a programme where some of these young kids get sent to Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea in a kind of political exchange programme and see what they think after a year of existing in those governments amongst the locals. For most the fervor would become flat, some might double down, but for most reality would become apparent. That's not to day we can't improve our own system. There is much room. But at the same time, the grass is brown on the other side, while you just have some weeds you gotta clear.
KarlMarxIsDaddy 9y ago
Communism is some good-ass shit and all capitalists need to be rounded up and shot.
namlem 9y ago
Young people, except for a small fringe, do not accept communism. Most just want a more left wing mixed market economy.

ameister14 9y ago

>It’s like they have forgotten how bad things can get if you let political ideologies like communism run amok. They haven't forgotten. They grew up in a world where the US was hegemon.

awinder 9y ago

To play devil's advocate, young americans have also seen the worst of capitalism run amok in America, coupled with tax policies that are skewed towards age cohorts differently. I'm not saying things would be better under socialism, but people really need to understand that A) the current system has failed young people and B) it's on capitalism to either correct these failings or people will seek alternatives. This just boils down to basic human psychology, adapt or die.

ivcha 9y ago

It seems to me you presented zero arguments why socialism is bad and capitalism is good (and why people should keep believing in it).

cjalmeida 9y ago
To quote some famous developer, talk is cheap. I recommend you talking to your average Joe (or Pablo, or Petr) living (or that lived) in places like Venezuela, Cuba, the hole Eastern Bloc, Albania, Cambodia, Mao's China, or any sub Sahara African state (except Botswana and RSA) that actively pursued the Marxist dream.
- AstralStorm 9y ago
  These have a thing in common. They were poor when communist and still poor when capitalist. (Except China, but there the problem was mismanagement and embargoes.)

danschumann 9y ago

I don't think they even know what communism means. They just want everyone to be taken care of. Children want to be taken care of by their parents. Communism is when government seizes control of means of production. There are not many businesses that would be better ran by government than by private citizens with skin in the game. Only institutions where profit motive is not helpful, like prisons, should be run by government. I am against private prisons, but for private almost everything else.

frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
>Only institutions where profit motive is not helpful, like prisons, should be run by government. I am against private prisons, but for private almost everything else. In telecom we've got companies screwing over their customers in a myriad of ways, in gaming we've got companies turning their games in slot machines for kids, in medicine we've got $1000 pills that cost $2 in India, in tech we've got the indiscriminate gathering of every piece of consumer information we can gather (and subsequent lack of security placed on it), agriculture's struggling with dicamba drift and so on. It doesn't seem clear to me that you can draw a strict line between the profit-seeking behavior of those private enterprises and that of a private enterprise like prisons.
- danschumann 9y ago
  Yea, at times, I've thought it might be good if the internet was more like a utility. Perhaps there could be a public option, without `seizing means of production` of existing companies, ala communism. Prescription stuff is probably one of the most screwed up parts of our country. The fact that weed is illegal because big pharma wants it to be. I don't think the situation would be much improved if the government siezed control of pharma companies, but it would be improved if pharma companies no longer had control of the government.
  - frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
    >I don't think the situation would be much improved if the government siezed control of pharma companies, but it would be improved if pharma companies no longer had control of the government. Seeking control of the government is a side effect of profit motive, it's a symptom of capitalism. Seizing the means of big pharma seems totally fine to me, it's a public good and our world where the amount spent researching a cure is proportional to how much money we can milk out of those afflicted seems a lot worse to me than a world where the amount spent researching a cure is proportional to the misery of those afflicted.

mc32 9y ago

Your people are idealists. I'd like to see a programme where some of these young kids get sent to Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea in a kind of political exchange programme and see what they think after a year of existing in those governments amongst the locals. For most the fervor would become flat, some might double down, but for most reality would become apparent. That's not to day we can't improve our own system. There is much room. But at the same time, the grass is brown on the other side, while you just have some weeds you gotta clear.

KarlMarxIsDaddy 9y ago

Communism is some good-ass shit and all capitalists need to be rounded up and shot.

namlem 9y ago

Young people, except for a small fringe, do not accept communism. Most just want a more left wing mixed market economy.