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Why would you even want to use JS on desktop if you have other options available? JS is the choice on the Web, because it's the only choice. It's the choice on

Why would you even want to use JS on desktop if you have other options available? JS is the choice on the Web, because it's the only choice. It's the choice on Electron, because you can share the code base with Web version or make stuff like editors targeted to JS developers, so they can hack them while using them. But otherwise, it seems like the only worse option you could use for desktop apps is PHP. Why are people doing it to themselves? Since we're in a submission about Qt: if you really don't want to touch C++ (which is kinda understandable, although C++ with Qt actually isn't that bad), Qt is very well supported in Python. Using them together is a breeze, and if you really do miss the craziness of JavaScript, you can still use it in QML :P And if QML is what you only care about, you can even wrap it with Rust.

DiThi 9y ago
JS is a pretty good option in many cases, easier to support in many platforms and arguably easier to develop and debug. What is not, though, is bundling a whole browser. A JS engine is a couple orders of magnitude smaller than a browser.
- seba_dos1 9y ago
  I've been a professional JS developer for a few years, doing both in-browser and node-based automation stuff (never desktop apps in JS though, thankfully). What I mean is that while new JS revisions are trying to catch up and become somewhat pleasant to write in, there's still tons of baggage of bad decisions from the past that make this language simply awful when compared to basically any other popular language - and those aren't stagnating either. Just in order to retain your sanity, you need to use several layers above JS to transpile your code - like JSX when you do UI or TypeScript when you do... well, anything. I believe that JS is considered easy only because you can get your first impressive results very quickly when combined with HTML and CSS, which makes it easy to not lose your focus when learning. That might make it a good language to learn in, say, primary school on IT lessons - of course, only if there weren't other, better suited stuff available targeting these cases specifically already. Anything else actually makes JS harder than, say, Python. Or Go. Or C#. Or Java. Or even C++ with Qt (although C++ is easily second worse). Or Rust. There's just so much stuff you have to keep in your head while writing JS, it's not worth it. But you have to let go of "I know it, so I'll use it, no matter how well suited it is" mentality, and that can be challenging.
  - DiThi 9y ago
    > Anything else actually makes JS harder than, say, Python. It depends on the setup. I use CoffeeScript 2 which gives me most of what I miss from Python (which was my favorite language for years). And when I go back to Python I miss having a debugger as good as Chrome's, as well as some CS2/ES6 features. > There's just so much stuff you have to keep in your head while writing JS, it's not worth it. Can you give me some examples?
seanwilson 9y ago
C++ is packed with undefined behaviour, complexity and cruft. I find JavaScript and extensions like TypeScript much more pleasant to work with.
- workthrowaway27 9y ago
  C is for sure. You can avoid most of this in C++ by using the standard library and some of the newer language features.
- geezerjay 9y ago
  > C++ is packed with undefined behaviour This alone clearly states that you known nothing abou C++ beyond tired old, meaningless clichés about irrelevant stuff you've heard somewhere and are complaining about something you know nothing about.
  - seanwilson 9y ago
    How? Has C++ eliminated undefined behaviour recently? Yes, you can avoid it but it requires years of experience, a significant cognitive load as you work, linting/testing tools and you have to hope all the libraries you're using plus your team members have the same high standard that you're trying to follow yourself. I used C++ for years and knowing there are other languages out there I have no interest in making life hard for myself.
    - marshray 9y ago
      Here's 1,605 pages of defined behavior. What language are you comparing it to with more completely-defined behavior that can be translated to efficient native binary code for as many different architectures? https://www.iso.org/standard/68564.html https://www.iso.org/standard/68564.html
    - geezerjay 9y ago
      > How? Because you're repeatedly showing profound ignorance on very basic aspects of using a programming language. > Has C++ eliminated undefined behaviour recently? You are aware that you're parroting on and on about an entirely irrelevant issue, don't you? I mean, any behaviour which has been left undefined in the international standard only means that there is a chance that two implementations may not implement the same obscure aspect exactly alike. And that's perfectly fine because these obscure corner cases shouldn't be used to begin with. That's what undefined behaviour does mean in practice. But even if you for some obscure and irrational reason care enough to rely on behaviour left undefined then you also go another standard approach: adopt a specific implementation and check how the behavior was implemented. Additionally, rust and go and python and other programming languages are not defined at all and somehow programmers don't get bothered by the fact that these programming languages are entirely undefined. But somehow you feel differently about a language you clearly know nothing about.
k__ 9y ago
JavaScript has many features that have nothing to do with the language, that make it nice. Big community, with many learning resources. Nice package managers, with libraries for basically everything. Since many people already know JavaScript from working as a web developer, they also have a faster start.

DiThi 9y ago

JS is a pretty good option in many cases, easier to support in many platforms and arguably easier to develop and debug. What is not, though, is bundling a whole browser. A JS engine is a couple orders of magnitude smaller than a browser.

seba_dos1 9y ago
I've been a professional JS developer for a few years, doing both in-browser and node-based automation stuff (never desktop apps in JS though, thankfully). What I mean is that while new JS revisions are trying to catch up and become somewhat pleasant to write in, there's still tons of baggage of bad decisions from the past that make this language simply awful when compared to basically any other popular language - and those aren't stagnating either. Just in order to retain your sanity, you need to use several layers above JS to transpile your code - like JSX when you do UI or TypeScript when you do... well, anything. I believe that JS is considered easy only because you can get your first impressive results very quickly when combined with HTML and CSS, which makes it easy to not lose your focus when learning. That might make it a good language to learn in, say, primary school on IT lessons - of course, only if there weren't other, better suited stuff available targeting these cases specifically already. Anything else actually makes JS harder than, say, Python. Or Go. Or C#. Or Java. Or even C++ with Qt (although C++ is easily second worse). Or Rust. There's just so much stuff you have to keep in your head while writing JS, it's not worth it. But you have to let go of "I know it, so I'll use it, no matter how well suited it is" mentality, and that can be challenging.
- DiThi 9y ago
  > Anything else actually makes JS harder than, say, Python. It depends on the setup. I use CoffeeScript 2 which gives me most of what I miss from Python (which was my favorite language for years). And when I go back to Python I miss having a debugger as good as Chrome's, as well as some CS2/ES6 features. > There's just so much stuff you have to keep in your head while writing JS, it's not worth it. Can you give me some examples?

seanwilson 9y ago

C++ is packed with undefined behaviour, complexity and cruft. I find JavaScript and extensions like TypeScript much more pleasant to work with.

workthrowaway27 9y ago
C is for sure. You can avoid most of this in C++ by using the standard library and some of the newer language features.
geezerjay 9y ago
> C++ is packed with undefined behaviour This alone clearly states that you known nothing abou C++ beyond tired old, meaningless clichés about irrelevant stuff you've heard somewhere and are complaining about something you know nothing about.
- seanwilson 9y ago
  How? Has C++ eliminated undefined behaviour recently? Yes, you can avoid it but it requires years of experience, a significant cognitive load as you work, linting/testing tools and you have to hope all the libraries you're using plus your team members have the same high standard that you're trying to follow yourself. I used C++ for years and knowing there are other languages out there I have no interest in making life hard for myself.
  - marshray 9y ago
    Here's 1,605 pages of defined behavior. What language are you comparing it to with more completely-defined behavior that can be translated to efficient native binary code for as many different architectures? https://www.iso.org/standard/68564.html https://www.iso.org/standard/68564.html
  - geezerjay 9y ago
    > How? Because you're repeatedly showing profound ignorance on very basic aspects of using a programming language. > Has C++ eliminated undefined behaviour recently? You are aware that you're parroting on and on about an entirely irrelevant issue, don't you? I mean, any behaviour which has been left undefined in the international standard only means that there is a chance that two implementations may not implement the same obscure aspect exactly alike. And that's perfectly fine because these obscure corner cases shouldn't be used to begin with. That's what undefined behaviour does mean in practice. But even if you for some obscure and irrational reason care enough to rely on behaviour left undefined then you also go another standard approach: adopt a specific implementation and check how the behavior was implemented. Additionally, rust and go and python and other programming languages are not defined at all and somehow programmers don't get bothered by the fact that these programming languages are entirely undefined. But somehow you feel differently about a language you clearly know nothing about.

k__ 9y ago

JavaScript has many features that have nothing to do with the language, that make it nice. Big community, with many learning resources. Nice package managers, with libraries for basically everything. Since many people already know JavaScript from working as a web developer, they also have a faster start.