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The issue with that is that it’s effectively collective punishment for everyone working at VW, whether they had any part in the cheating or not. If also fails t

The issue with that is that it’s effectively collective punishment for everyone working at VW, whether they had any part in the cheating or not. If also fails to punish individuals who may since have moved on or retired. Targeting the individuals responsible seems more fair and efficient on the whole, if more difficult to implement.

wereHamster 9y ago
Collective punishment incentivises the company to put safeguards into place. Papertrails for all decisions, four eyes principle, transparency etc. Corporations are people, right? Punish the person. The corporation can decide whether to shift the punishment down to the responsible people (conduct their own internal investigation to find the responsible people, and punish them appropriately), and work towards a structure where these things won't happen or can be detected early.
crankylinuxuser 9y ago
Well, maybe its time to start looking at a corporate death penalty. We kill people who do really bad and are convicted. Take it out of the shareholders. Oh, and yes, also imprison executives who do that. This doesn't have to be an either/or. Do both. Or, maybe a few million dollar fine, after they got a profit of a few billion. That'll learn 'em!
- ams6110 9y ago
  As long as you realise that "taking it out on the shareholders" means your 401K, your parents IRAs, etc.
  - TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
    Seeing how most corporations care more about pleasing shareholders than pleasing the government, workers, or customers, then yes, this kind of behavior needs to negatively impact investors as well. That would powerfully disincentivize profitable behavior that hurts society overall.
  - s73ver_ 9y ago
    Those people benefitted from the illegal goings on as well.
- PJDK 9y ago
  I've seen people say this often, how do you envision it working? What happens to all the employees, assets, shareholders etc.? If VW is "executed" do you mean all the shares are seized and re-sold or do you mean everyone loses their jobs - discs are wiped, factories demolished etc etc.?

wereHamster 9y ago

Collective punishment incentivises the company to put safeguards into place. Papertrails for all decisions, four eyes principle, transparency etc. Corporations are people, right? Punish the person. The corporation can decide whether to shift the punishment down to the responsible people (conduct their own internal investigation to find the responsible people, and punish them appropriately), and work towards a structure where these things won't happen or can be detected early.

crankylinuxuser 9y ago

Well, maybe its time to start looking at a corporate death penalty. We kill people who do really bad and are convicted. Take it out of the shareholders. Oh, and yes, also imprison executives who do that. This doesn't have to be an either/or. Do both. Or, maybe a few million dollar fine, after they got a profit of a few billion. That'll learn 'em!

ams6110 9y ago
As long as you realise that "taking it out on the shareholders" means your 401K, your parents IRAs, etc.
- TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
  Seeing how most corporations care more about pleasing shareholders than pleasing the government, workers, or customers, then yes, this kind of behavior needs to negatively impact investors as well. That would powerfully disincentivize profitable behavior that hurts society overall.
- s73ver_ 9y ago
  Those people benefitted from the illegal goings on as well.
PJDK 9y ago
I've seen people say this often, how do you envision it working? What happens to all the employees, assets, shareholders etc.? If VW is "executed" do you mean all the shares are seized and re-sold or do you mean everyone loses their jobs - discs are wiped, factories demolished etc etc.?