8 ms·

I have been taking 5000IU Vitamin D for the past 7 years, with a little more over the winter months. It's stupidly cheap, I get 360 5000IU capsules for $13, so

by rmm 9y ago

I have been taking 5000IU Vitamin D for the past 7 years, with a little more over the winter months. It's stupidly cheap, I get 360 5000IU capsules for $13, so it has cost me less than $100 over that period. Anecdotally, it was a game changer for me personally. I got less sick during the winter, and my overall wellbeing improved greatly. A word of advice, increase Vitamin K intake aswell. Vitamin D helps calcium absorption, but Vitamin K directs it to where it needs to go (skeleton).

ejstronge 9y ago
I haven't heard this about vitamin K before - please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we know how the mechanism through which vitamin K reduces skeletal fractures.
- AstralStorm 9y ago
  Indeed we don't, plus the two forms of vitamin K (phylloquinone and menaquinone) have different mode of action. They are important cofactor for many proteins, including one called osteocalcin, needed for bone calcification.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
    It looks like Vitamin K also inhibits arterial calcification.[1] 1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4052396/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4052396/
- hellofunk 9y ago
  Correct; see my other comment as well. Vitamin K supplementation should not be casually added to anyone's diet without careful evaluation.
- Matrixik 9y ago
  Here you can find all info you want: https://examine.com/supplements/vitamin-k/ https://examine.com/supplements/vitamin-k/ Search on that page for: "Skeleton and Bone Metabolism". K1 and K2 work differently. We know a lot but there is still a lot more we don't know. Hell, looks like even different versions of K2 (from MK-4 to MK-13) works for different stuff in body. Only because MK-7 stays in blood for longer than MK-4 doesn't mean that it better. It could also mean that body is better in utilizing MK-4, or even that it's using it for different stuff. More here: https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2016/12/03/start-here-for-vitamin-k2/ https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2016/12/03/start-here-for-vit...
  - seasonalgrit 9y ago
    Both of those sites appear to be money-making ventures that sell vitamins; I wouldn't consider them reliable sources. Here is a university page with information: http://www.umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/vitamin-k http://www.umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/vitamin-...
    - ConfucianNardin 9y ago
      Examine.com does NOT sell vitamins/supplements. They collect and analyze available research, and the result of that process is their product (in the form of guides etc).
      - seasonalgrit 9y ago
        Thanks for noting this. Their web site design (as well as the use of a dotcom domain) gives a misleading impression
        Matrixik 9y ago
        And Chris Masterjohn, PhD is also working with them, example http://v6.examinecdn.com/erd/chrismasterjohn2.pdf http://v6.examinecdn.com/erd/chrismasterjohn2.pdf Personally I don't know better source with information about different supplements than examine.com, more how they are working here: https://examine.com/about/ https://examine.com/about/ If you know better source point it to me, please. This university page you provided is short and old. Just one question: what's wrong with using dotcom domain?
        seasonalgrit 9y ago
        If examine.com's metaanalsyses are based on legitimate research papers -- and you've read some of the papers yourself and find that they indeed provide support for the article citing them -- then i'd say yeah, use the site. i guess to respond to your question: most biomedical research today is eminating from universities and university-affiliated entites. page for page, i generally wouldn't expect a .com web site -- the majority of which are probably just attempting to generate advertising revenue -- to be on par in terms of accuracy etc with a .edu site. generally, I've found one of the best ways to improve the signal-to-noise ratio is to filter to a specific set of domains (e.g., ,edu, .gov) when searching online.
Styn 9y ago
Word of advice: don't take vitamins ADEK without advice from a physician for extended periods or in high doses. These are fat soluble so you can have too much of them.
- avip 9y ago
  This should be reiterated: Please consult a professional before drastically altering the chemical composition of your ephemeral body. I know it sounds downright crazy, but it's possible that someone who's studied medicine and practiced it for years, actually knows better than random anonymous forum users.
  - icelancer 9y ago
    >>I know it sounds downright crazy, but it's possible that someone who's studied medicine and practiced it for years, actually knows better than random anonymous forum users. As the link in the OP actually denotes, no, that's not always the case. Bodybuilders and performance trainers - as well as Soviet Union sports scientists - have known for decades that Vitamin D supplementation is vital. This has been rejected by a significant number of general practitioners and other medical experts who are and were anti-supplement simply out of rote thinking. Yes, people should be tested for their levels. But this simply isn't feasible for poor people, and telling them to get serum tests for Vitamin D before taking a lower-bound amount of the cheap supplement from the grocery store is ridiculous.
    - smt88 9y ago
      That's why doctors recommend that people get adequate sunlight every day. Of course paler people need to find a safe balance.
      - exhilaration 9y ago
        For most of the U.S. population, sunlight isn't enough: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15869454 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15869454
sumedh 9y ago
> I got less sick during the winter, and my overall wellbeing improved greatly. Just out of curiosity, did you work out regularly in a gym before taking those pills?
- Joe-Z 9y ago
  Not the GP, but: While I discovered in the last years that I absolutely need to work out regularly or risk getting depressed, it is especially hard in the winter months. It seems that my body is preparing for hibernation and all I want to do is sleep and eat (preferably with lots of carbs and fat). I think I will talk to my doctor about trying some Vitamin D supplementation in the next months. Generally I try to avoid supplements, but in this case I don't know what else to try.
  - bloodorange 9y ago
    It is very easy to fall to low levels of Vitamin D even with supplementation (you need an abnormally high dose at times to get to 'normal'). So, please do check with your doctor. If you do have a deficiency and get supplements, it makes a lot of difference.
  - voiper1 9y ago
    In winter you probably also get less sunlight. I'm under the impression that most people would benefit from bright daylight during the day -- I have some LEDs in the daylight/6000K spectrum on a timer at my workstation -- even if you aren't diagnosed with SAD. Remember to keep them on during the _daytime_ only, though, to keep your body clock on the appropriate schedule!
  - adrianmonk 9y ago
    This is not necessarily the same issue as you're talking about, but I feel like in the winter, doing your workouts outdoors in the daytime can be a good thing. Some people (including me) find that they stay indoors most of the time in the winter. Doing your workout outside gets you out there, which gives you not only sunlight (speaking of Vitamin D) but also a change of scenery that can cut down on cabin fever. With the proper gear, the cold is tolerable (except maybe in extreme climates). And, especially if the exercise is vigorous, it's more tolerable being outdoors in the cold than it would be if you just went stood or sat around outside.
hellofunk 9y ago
Vitamin K can be dangerous for a not insignificant part of the population, many of whom don't realize they might be sensitive to it. It is a very strong addition to the body and affects blood clotting and interactions with many medications. If you want to safely increase vitamin K, just eat more dark green vegetables like spinach. There's no need to overdo it with K or it could be a regrettable error.
- manmal 9y ago
  The best „normal“ dietary source is Gouda cheese, and almost an order of magnitude better, Natto (though that’s hard on the taste buds).
  - andai 9y ago
    Gouda is important for my health? Thanks, that's the best news I've heard all week !
    - Toast_25 9y ago
      It'll do you a lot of Gouda.
  - twobyfour 9y ago
    What is Natto?
    - vinc 9y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natt%C5%8D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natt%C5%8D You may not like the taste, but trying it is an interesting experiment.
    - VRay 9y ago
      Boiled soybeans served in mucus
    - masklinn 9y ago
      Fermented soybeans, a japanese dish. It's a bit smelly. I had no issue with it when I went to japan, but I really enjoy somewhat aged cheeses.
robg 9y ago
D3 is the more active form, agreed on adding K too. Worth paying a bit more for higher quality controls.
drzaiusapelord 9y ago
>and my overall wellbeing improved greatly. Just a counter-point. Vitamin D didn't help me with SAD. SAD seems only addressed for me by a proper full spectrum lamp for 30 minutes a day in the winter.
pascalxus 9y ago
Vitamin K is found in very high concentrations in almost any leafy green vegetable or tomatoes and countless other vegetables. You won't have any problem getting enough vitamin K. Just take half a pound of spinach and boil it, when you eat it, it'll be about the size of a medium bowl. That will be about 50 calories and contain 1200% of your daily vitamin K needed!!
- opo 9y ago
  >...Just take half a pound of spinach and boil it, when you eat it, it'll be about the size of a medium bowl. That will be about 50 calories and contain 1200% of your daily vitamin K needed! It really isn't that simple. One issue is that it doesn't matter how much is in spinach if you don't absorb it. >...Circulating phylloquinone levels after spinach with and without butter were substantially lower (7.5- and 24.3-fold respectively) than those after taking the pharmaceutical concentrate. Moreover, the absorption of phylloquinone from the vegetables was 1.5 times slower than from Konakion. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8813897 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8813897 And while those vegetables will get you some K1, they won't get you K2 which is important for how calcium is handled in the body. >...We examined whether dietary intake of phylloquinone (vitamin K-1) and menaquinone (vitamin K-2) were related to aortic calcification and coronary heart disease (CHD) in the population-based Rotterdam Study. >...The relative risk (RR) of CHD mortality was reduced in the mid and upper tertiles of dietary menaquinone compared to the lower tertile [RR = 0.73 (95% CI: 0.45, 1.17) and 0.43 (0.24, 0.77), respectively]. Intake of menaquinone was also inversely related to all-cause mortality [RR = 0.91 (0.75, 1.09) and 0.74 (0.59, 0.92), respectively] and severe aortic calcification [odds ratio of 0.71 (0.50, 1.00) and 0.48 (0.32, 0.71), respectively]. Phylloquinone intake was not related to any of the outcomes. These findings suggest that an adequate intake of menaquinone could be important for CHD prevention. http://jn.nutrition.org/content/134/11/3100.long http://jn.nutrition.org/content/134/11/3100.long

by rmm 9y ago

ejstronge 9y ago

I haven't heard this about vitamin K before - please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we know how the mechanism through which vitamin K reduces skeletal fractures.

AstralStorm 9y ago
Indeed we don't, plus the two forms of vitamin K (phylloquinone and menaquinone) have different mode of action. They are important cofactor for many proteins, including one called osteocalcin, needed for bone calcification.
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
  It looks like Vitamin K also inhibits arterial calcification.[1] 1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4052396/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4052396/
hellofunk 9y ago
Correct; see my other comment as well. Vitamin K supplementation should not be casually added to anyone's diet without careful evaluation.
Matrixik 9y ago
Here you can find all info you want: https://examine.com/supplements/vitamin-k/ https://examine.com/supplements/vitamin-k/ Search on that page for: "Skeleton and Bone Metabolism". K1 and K2 work differently. We know a lot but there is still a lot more we don't know. Hell, looks like even different versions of K2 (from MK-4 to MK-13) works for different stuff in body. Only because MK-7 stays in blood for longer than MK-4 doesn't mean that it better. It could also mean that body is better in utilizing MK-4, or even that it's using it for different stuff. More here: https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2016/12/03/start-here-for-vitamin-k2/ https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2016/12/03/start-here-for-vit...
- seasonalgrit 9y ago
  Both of those sites appear to be money-making ventures that sell vitamins; I wouldn't consider them reliable sources. Here is a university page with information: http://www.umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/vitamin-k http://www.umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/vitamin-...
  - ConfucianNardin 9y ago
    Examine.com does NOT sell vitamins/supplements. They collect and analyze available research, and the result of that process is their product (in the form of guides etc).
    - seasonalgrit 9y ago
      Thanks for noting this. Their web site design (as well as the use of a dotcom domain) gives a misleading impression
      - Matrixik 9y ago
        And Chris Masterjohn, PhD is also working with them, example http://v6.examinecdn.com/erd/chrismasterjohn2.pdf http://v6.examinecdn.com/erd/chrismasterjohn2.pdf Personally I don't know better source with information about different supplements than examine.com, more how they are working here: https://examine.com/about/ https://examine.com/about/ If you know better source point it to me, please. This university page you provided is short and old. Just one question: what's wrong with using dotcom domain?
        seasonalgrit 9y ago
        If examine.com's metaanalsyses are based on legitimate research papers -- and you've read some of the papers yourself and find that they indeed provide support for the article citing them -- then i'd say yeah, use the site. i guess to respond to your question: most biomedical research today is eminating from universities and university-affiliated entites. page for page, i generally wouldn't expect a .com web site -- the majority of which are probably just attempting to generate advertising revenue -- to be on par in terms of accuracy etc with a .edu site. generally, I've found one of the best ways to improve the signal-to-noise ratio is to filter to a specific set of domains (e.g., ,edu, .gov) when searching online.

Styn 9y ago

Word of advice: don't take vitamins ADEK without advice from a physician for extended periods or in high doses. These are fat soluble so you can have too much of them.

avip 9y ago
This should be reiterated: Please consult a professional before drastically altering the chemical composition of your ephemeral body. I know it sounds downright crazy, but it's possible that someone who's studied medicine and practiced it for years, actually knows better than random anonymous forum users.
- icelancer 9y ago
  >>I know it sounds downright crazy, but it's possible that someone who's studied medicine and practiced it for years, actually knows better than random anonymous forum users. As the link in the OP actually denotes, no, that's not always the case. Bodybuilders and performance trainers - as well as Soviet Union sports scientists - have known for decades that Vitamin D supplementation is vital. This has been rejected by a significant number of general practitioners and other medical experts who are and were anti-supplement simply out of rote thinking. Yes, people should be tested for their levels. But this simply isn't feasible for poor people, and telling them to get serum tests for Vitamin D before taking a lower-bound amount of the cheap supplement from the grocery store is ridiculous.
  - smt88 9y ago
    That's why doctors recommend that people get adequate sunlight every day. Of course paler people need to find a safe balance.
    - exhilaration 9y ago
      For most of the U.S. population, sunlight isn't enough: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15869454 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15869454

sumedh 9y ago

> I got less sick during the winter, and my overall wellbeing improved greatly. Just out of curiosity, did you work out regularly in a gym before taking those pills?

Joe-Z 9y ago
Not the GP, but: While I discovered in the last years that I absolutely need to work out regularly or risk getting depressed, it is especially hard in the winter months. It seems that my body is preparing for hibernation and all I want to do is sleep and eat (preferably with lots of carbs and fat). I think I will talk to my doctor about trying some Vitamin D supplementation in the next months. Generally I try to avoid supplements, but in this case I don't know what else to try.
- bloodorange 9y ago
  It is very easy to fall to low levels of Vitamin D even with supplementation (you need an abnormally high dose at times to get to 'normal'). So, please do check with your doctor. If you do have a deficiency and get supplements, it makes a lot of difference.
- voiper1 9y ago
  In winter you probably also get less sunlight. I'm under the impression that most people would benefit from bright daylight during the day -- I have some LEDs in the daylight/6000K spectrum on a timer at my workstation -- even if you aren't diagnosed with SAD. Remember to keep them on during the _daytime_ only, though, to keep your body clock on the appropriate schedule!
- adrianmonk 9y ago
  This is not necessarily the same issue as you're talking about, but I feel like in the winter, doing your workouts outdoors in the daytime can be a good thing. Some people (including me) find that they stay indoors most of the time in the winter. Doing your workout outside gets you out there, which gives you not only sunlight (speaking of Vitamin D) but also a change of scenery that can cut down on cabin fever. With the proper gear, the cold is tolerable (except maybe in extreme climates). And, especially if the exercise is vigorous, it's more tolerable being outdoors in the cold than it would be if you just went stood or sat around outside.

hellofunk 9y ago

Vitamin K can be dangerous for a not insignificant part of the population, many of whom don't realize they might be sensitive to it. It is a very strong addition to the body and affects blood clotting and interactions with many medications. If you want to safely increase vitamin K, just eat more dark green vegetables like spinach. There's no need to overdo it with K or it could be a regrettable error.

manmal 9y ago
The best „normal“ dietary source is Gouda cheese, and almost an order of magnitude better, Natto (though that’s hard on the taste buds).
- andai 9y ago
  Gouda is important for my health? Thanks, that's the best news I've heard all week !
  - Toast_25 9y ago
    It'll do you a lot of Gouda.
- twobyfour 9y ago
  What is Natto?
  - vinc 9y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natt%C5%8D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natt%C5%8D You may not like the taste, but trying it is an interesting experiment.
  - VRay 9y ago
    Boiled soybeans served in mucus
  - masklinn 9y ago
    Fermented soybeans, a japanese dish. It's a bit smelly. I had no issue with it when I went to japan, but I really enjoy somewhat aged cheeses.

robg 9y ago

D3 is the more active form, agreed on adding K too. Worth paying a bit more for higher quality controls.

drzaiusapelord 9y ago

>and my overall wellbeing improved greatly. Just a counter-point. Vitamin D didn't help me with SAD. SAD seems only addressed for me by a proper full spectrum lamp for 30 minutes a day in the winter.

pascalxus 9y ago

Vitamin K is found in very high concentrations in almost any leafy green vegetable or tomatoes and countless other vegetables. You won't have any problem getting enough vitamin K. Just take half a pound of spinach and boil it, when you eat it, it'll be about the size of a medium bowl. That will be about 50 calories and contain 1200% of your daily vitamin K needed!!

opo 9y ago
>...Just take half a pound of spinach and boil it, when you eat it, it'll be about the size of a medium bowl. That will be about 50 calories and contain 1200% of your daily vitamin K needed! It really isn't that simple. One issue is that it doesn't matter how much is in spinach if you don't absorb it. >...Circulating phylloquinone levels after spinach with and without butter were substantially lower (7.5- and 24.3-fold respectively) than those after taking the pharmaceutical concentrate. Moreover, the absorption of phylloquinone from the vegetables was 1.5 times slower than from Konakion. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8813897 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8813897 And while those vegetables will get you some K1, they won't get you K2 which is important for how calcium is handled in the body. >...We examined whether dietary intake of phylloquinone (vitamin K-1) and menaquinone (vitamin K-2) were related to aortic calcification and coronary heart disease (CHD) in the population-based Rotterdam Study. >...The relative risk (RR) of CHD mortality was reduced in the mid and upper tertiles of dietary menaquinone compared to the lower tertile [RR = 0.73 (95% CI: 0.45, 1.17) and 0.43 (0.24, 0.77), respectively]. Intake of menaquinone was also inversely related to all-cause mortality [RR = 0.91 (0.75, 1.09) and 0.74 (0.59, 0.92), respectively] and severe aortic calcification [odds ratio of 0.71 (0.50, 1.00) and 0.48 (0.32, 0.71), respectively]. Phylloquinone intake was not related to any of the outcomes. These findings suggest that an adequate intake of menaquinone could be important for CHD prevention. http://jn.nutrition.org/content/134/11/3100.long http://jn.nutrition.org/content/134/11/3100.long